Bigol'tastynuggets Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, bear said: It was YOU that fired all those warning shots at members here, not the other way around. If you troll, don't expect people to roll over. Now we can get back on topic. :agree: I'm sorry. I thought your crying about mean, mean rules was the issue at hand. I'm genuinely, 100% serious, dissenting opinion is not trolling.... WHT makes sense now though! I'm sorry you're all riled up and angry - I wasn't intending to 'poke the bear' as they say you're clearly far too hormonal to have a discussion with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 52 minutes ago, Bigol'tastynuggets said: you're clearly far too hormonal to have a discussion with You've earned the unique achievement of being added to my ignore list. Few are there with you, going back all the way to Usenet. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yggdrasil Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 On 6/25/2021 at 11:04 AM, Fringe said: Hi, I just got the email telling me that the cost of the WHMCS licence will increase from $39.95+tax per month to $1,750+tax per month.... Is this real? I have asked via support ticket but not got an answer Is WHMCS really doing a 4280.48% increase (Thats what it works out at) in my monthly costs? If this is true how the hell can they justify this? If I did a 4280.48% increase in my customers monthly costs I would be out of business in days. I would expect a small increase each year but 4280% OMG!!! Yes, WHMCS did a 4000 + % price increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigol'tastynuggets Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 hour ago, yggdrasil said: Yes, WHMCS did a 4000 + % price increase. Funny, in a very odd way lol there's still people only just realising! That must be awful for those without the time to prepare for whatever reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHMCS Support Manager WHMCS John Posted July 19, 2021 WHMCS Support Manager Share Posted July 19, 2021 Hi @Fringe, Apologies for coming to this thread a little late; a lot of our focus has been discussing individual's needs directly via ticket, as I appreciate a lot of these discussions can be sensitive by nature. I see that our customer service team did confirm that the price change we announced on 4th April, is indeed occurring. It's great to see that your business is growing, and that WHMCS has played some small part in helping automate your operations. Please rest assured that your price is not changing by 4000% as some are claiming. While I know that for a proportion of users the increases are significant, we do believe that they are in line with the value a business receives from WHMCS, and is comparable with other Enterprise level solutions. That there are other solutions that are cheaper is without question, but those products do not have the same level of team behind them, the 24x7 technical support, the number and depth of integrations or the flexibility and customisability of WHMCS. These price changes will ensure we can continue to deliver an even better product, backed by an expert team and a great experience. @zomex, Resellers are free to charge whatever prices they like for WHMCS licenses. Some may chose to market a WHMCS license as a loss leader, some may subsidize the price to a certain extent, or sell at full retail. In theory someone could sell at above retail price, although I don't think I've seen that yet 😄 If you have questions about the terms of your reseller agreement, please do contact our Resellers team via the support tab in your Reseller Portal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisTERiS Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, WHMCS John said: @zomex, Resellers are free to charge whatever prices they like for WHMCS licenses. Some may chose to market a WHMCS license as a loss leader, some may subsidize the price to a certain extent, or sell at full retail. In theory someone could sell at above retail price, although I don't think I've seen that yet 😄 If you have questions about the terms of your reseller agreement, please do contact our Resellers team via the support tab in your Reseller Portal. I think that the problem of @zoemex (and mine too), is not the price that a Reseller sells the license, but how they sell it. As I read above, a Reseller can sell a WHMCS license only as part of a hosting plan (eg as Namecheap does), and not as part of any other product (eg Module, Template etc). That's the critical point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zomex Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 2 hours ago, WHMCS John said: @zomex, Resellers are free to charge whatever prices they like for WHMCS licenses. Some may chose to market a WHMCS license as a loss leader, some may subsidize the price to a certain extent, or sell at full retail. In theory someone could sell at above retail price, although I don't think I've seen that yet 😄 If you have questions about the terms of your reseller agreement, please do contact our Resellers team via the support tab in your Reseller Portal. You completely missed my point John. The program has always been marketed as requiring the licenses to be sold bundled with hosting services even to this day your reseller program page confirms this. This is the reason I have ruled out your reseller program for the last 11 years. Theme Metro are bundling the license with templates, not hosting services. So why have they been approved? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnwilfulExpenditure Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 6 hours ago, WHMCS John said: Apologies for coming to this thread a little late; a lot of our focus has been discussing individual's needs directly via ticket, as I appreciate a lot of these discussions can be sensitive by nature. I thought you guys hired more support staff to deal with *******Premium Support********* Surely the workload has decreased massively? Forgive my naivety, When WHMCS said "Staffing a support team for 24x7 coverage and with the ability to scale for peak times such as new releases requires significant investment" I thought it was more than a platitude? 6 hours ago, WHMCS John said: but those products do not have the same level of team behind them Yes, I think that's why the general level of discontent arose and why other platforms were discussed 6 hours ago, WHMCS John said: the number and depth of integrations or the flexibility and customisability of WHMCS Do you think this will still be the case with many developers realising you're taking a lot of money off of the table? Or does the new fangled premium support help with that now? Also, it does feel like you purposely ignore genuine issues to avoid them, Zomex asked a different question and it came across as totally disingenuous and yet another "John fobbed me off" type of response. I do hope the new capable support staff read with more enthusiasm when dealing with customers as there is a pattern that is becoming far too annoying for the people left using WHMCS John. Alas, I shall escape to a new automation world eventually, Maybe when the lockdown is lifted, I can buy you a coffee at one of the conventions and come playfully ruffle those locks of yours to help get that brain engaged! 😛 It does not bode well for company image! I assumed that meant that WHMCS were bringing in people capable of providing support - Why is this still an issue after the massive price hikes? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yggdrasil Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 7 hours ago, WHMCS John said: Hi @Fringe, Apologies for coming to this thread a little late; a lot of our focus has been discussing individual's needs directly via ticket, as I appreciate a lot of these discussions can be sensitive by nature. I see that our customer service team did confirm that the price change we announced on 4th April, is indeed occurring. It's great to see that your business is growing, and that WHMCS has played some small part in helping automate your operations. Please rest assured that your price is not changing by 4000% as some are claiming. While I know that for a proportion of users the increases are significant, we do believe that they are in line with the value a business receives from WHMCS, and is comparable with other Enterprise level solutions. That there are other solutions that are cheaper is without question, but those products do not have the same level of team behind them, the 24x7 technical support, the number and depth of integrations or the flexibility and customisability of WHMCS. These price changes will ensure we can continue to deliver an even better product, backed by an expert team and a great experience. @zomex, Resellers are free to charge whatever prices they like for WHMCS licenses. Some may chose to market a WHMCS license as a loss leader, some may subsidize the price to a certain extent, or sell at full retail. In theory someone could sell at above retail price, although I don't think I've seen that yet 😄 If you have questions about the terms of your reseller agreement, please do contact our Resellers team via the support tab in your Reseller Portal. I'm curious, so if @Fringe has an unlimited WHMCS license, how much did the price increased for him if not 4000%? 3000%, 2000%? He clearly said it was $39.95 a month. How much would the same license holder have to pay now on the new pricing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Boucher Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 I don't see where you all are getting the $1000s of dollars increase from. It says $XX/per month. Not per client in the APP. The service is well worth it for us. Am I reading the Price List wrong? Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yggdrasil Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Rick Boucher said: I don't see where you all are getting the $1000s of dollars increase from. It says $XX/per month. Not per client in the APP. The service is well worth it for us. Am I reading the Price List wrong? Rick Yes it does. The pricing clearly specifies Max. Active Clients. Unlimited clients/customers/accounts (call them how you like) was $40 a month before the increase, that $40 month is now capped to a max of 1000 active accounts. And it goes up to $300 a month for up to 10,000 accounts. Over that, you need unlimited it seems. The unlimited one is not even listed anymore because they are ashamed of telling everyone how much it costs. Think the following scenario. An active account is a person with 1 domain on his account and nothing else. That license costs more than the profits for that account. Not even going to mention someone with trials or free products, they also count as active. Any account in your WHMCS installation with 1 single product/service active counts towards the license. 10,000 for the Internet or global business is nothing. The service is worth to you? What service? WHMCS runs on my servers and pay for those servers costs, and every account or customer I register, I had to work and pay for them. WHMCS did not gave us a single account or customer and they are not paying the costs to run my website or software. This is like Windows trying to charge you for Office based on the amount of hours you had the software open regardless if you actually did something or not, or based on the amount of Word documents you create or emails you receive on Outlook. WHMCS is a software, not a service. And they assume an active account is giving you money monthly, because they surely want a profit from every active customer in your server. And I'm old enough to know how this story ends. Eventually they will try to also count subaccounts as active accounts, and then maybe even charge extra based on the amount of money you make or active products you have. At some point, they will try to charge for every single add-on and extra feature because this is clearly the path they are heading with the software. Edited July 22, 2021 by yggdrasil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnwilfulExpenditure Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 10 hours ago, yggdrasil said: At some point, they will try to charge for every single add-on and extra feature because this is clearly the path they are heading with the software. They already cancelled the apps, with owned licenses - Replaced with a dearer monthly fee apps! Few of their modules have followed the same direction Owned licenses got essentially binned, maybe you can use for a short while - but it won't be safe soon when it's past the period they release patches This is not the future, this is their business model! Screw the user, tempt the user and screw them again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yggdrasil Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 4 hours ago, UnwilfulExpenditure said: They already cancelled the apps, with owned licenses - Replaced with a dearer monthly fee apps! Few of their modules have followed the same direction Owned licenses got essentially binned, maybe you can use for a short while - but it won't be safe soon when it's past the period they release patches This is not the future, this is their business model! Screw the user, tempt the user and screw them again! I was one of those persons that actually purchased all add-ons, from the live chat, to the project manager to the licensing one. Everything WHMCS had to sell, I got. Sucker me, all that money is down the pipe, as I never used those add-ons (just purchased them for some future) and now that investment is down the toilet as they are useless. 😂😂😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigol'tastynuggets Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 1 hour ago, yggdrasil said: I was one of those persons that actually purchased all add-ons, from the live chat, to the project manager to the licensing one. Everything WHMCS had to sell, I got. Sucker me, all that money is down the pipe, as I never used those add-ons (just purchased them for some future) and now that investment is down the toilet as they are useless. 😂😂😂 Ouch, yeah really sneaky and dishonest business practices in my opinion! Certainly a pattern involved and I don't think they believe they have reached the peak of what people can be charged! They'll continue to sell things and then remove access..... or "improve through revocation of license rights" its something I find particularly disgusting. Almost as annoying as getting bans for speaking my mind 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsa Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 On 7/19/2021 at 3:59 PM, zomex said: You completely missed my point John. The program has always been marketed as requiring the licenses to be sold bundled with hosting services even to this day your reseller program page confirms this. This is the reason I have ruled out your reseller program for the last 11 years. Theme Metro are bundling the license with templates, not hosting services. So why have they been approved? Jack, I think they allow any services now I see other company sales without hosting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHMCS Support Manager WHMCS John Posted July 22, 2021 WHMCS Support Manager Share Posted July 22, 2021 3 hours ago, yggdrasil said: I was one of those persons that actually purchased all add-ons, from the live chat, to the project manager to the licensing one. Everything WHMCS had to sell, I got. The pricing and terms of the paid addons (Live Chat, Project Management, Configurable Packages etc) are not changing as part of this pricing change, neither are there currently any plans to discontinue them. These addons remain active and available for use on your license. Addons can also be transferred to another license in the same account upon request. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnwilfulExpenditure Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 2 hours ago, WHMCS John said: The pricing and terms of the paid addons (Live Chat, Project Management, Configurable Packages etc) are not changing as part of this pricing change, neither are there currently any plans to discontinue them. These addons remain active and available for use on your license. Addons can also be transferred to another license in the same account upon request. Didn't project management get the same treatment as owned licenses a while back? 😂 Or was that just the mobile apps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And then there was one les Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) Well I was thinking of returning to whmcs. I have an owned license. I was looking for an upgrade license as was previously the case but no, that option is no longer available. So I can install to the point where my last upgrade license expired or i can go monthly (whmcs 5 something ). Well that answers the question at hand.. I will not be using WHMCS because I will not pay a monthly fee to use a product I already own a license for. So I am going to bite this bullet and cut my losses. Bottom line is its time for me to, once and for all, say goodbye. Edited July 25, 2021 by CDJ Hosting 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigol'tastynuggets Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 hours ago, CDJ Hosting said: Well I was thinking of returning to whmcs. I have an owned license. I was looking for an upgrade license as was previously the case but no, that option is no longer available. So I can install to the point where my last upgrade license expired or i can go monthly (whmcs 5 something ). Well that answers the question at hand.. I will not be using WHMCS because I will not pay a monthly fee to use a product I already own a license for. So I am going to bite this bullet and cut my losses. Bottom line is its time for me to, once and for all, say goodbye. Yes, rather insulting to make you pay monthly for something they already sold you an owned license for! I don't blame you or the others for leaving whmcs. I'll be free soon! My dev is almost finished with my new site 😁 In 3 years, there will be no developers interested, no medium sized businesses ..... just the people using it for crime, big businesses, nulled licenses and a load of people who don't know any better! Self respecting people, will walk away and treat them like hostbill when they did the same! Only issue is whmcs continually does it! Enough is enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigol'tastynuggets Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 All I'm saying is.... https://billingbrawl.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolve Web Hosting Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 7 hours ago, Bigol'tastynuggets said: All I'm saying is.... https://billingbrawl.com/ I don't think this has been updated for years and is Blesta running this site or someone independent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigol'tastynuggets Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 6 hours ago, evolve hosting said: I don't think this has been updated for years and is Blesta running this site or someone independent? No idea, just made me laugh! Whmcs is still as infantile in its ability to be a billing system though so 🤷🏻♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zomex Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 26 minutes ago, Bigol'tastynuggets said: No idea, just made me laugh! Whmcs is still as infantile in its ability to be a billing system though so 🤷🏻♂️ Firstly I do like Blesta. I like their staff and the openness of their software and of course their pricing. But from experience I can tell you that most people I have seen switch to Blesta eventually return to WHMCS. You can't compare the two in terms of features. Also in terms of demand for Blesta it is a drop in the ocean compared to WHMCS. It's like comparing Amazon to Walmart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnwilfulExpenditure Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 48 minutes ago, zomex said: Firstly I do like Blesta. I like their staff and the openness of their software and of course their pricing. But from experience I can tell you that most people I have seen switch to Blesta eventually return to WHMCS. You can't compare the two in terms of features. Also in terms of demand for Blesta it is a drop in the ocean compared to WHMCS. It's like comparing Amazon to Walmart. Really, I've seen many switch and enjoy themselves! I think those without technical ability struggle! Which is maybe why devs rally against it - Only technically capable users seem to enjoy it - It's not that difficult to use, but it's not as dumbed down as WHMCS. That and open codebase..... So it does kind of rule out the ones who take example hooks posted here from the goodness of peoples hearts and then re-sold for 30 euros a year 😂 ( This is no way an attack on you btw Zomex! Just a generalised spilling of my thoughts 🙂 I like what you're doing with mono, I keep meaning to try it out!) In terms of features, Most usable/good are 3rd party (Until WHMCS adds them in once it's been done 😉 ) - That's just been kicked in the you-know-what.... Unfortunately budgets exist for many! Most devs I speak to regularly are getting less sales, or seeing intention to not renew on a lot of products! The changes made definitely have a trickle down effect on the ecosystem that people such as yourself earn a living from. Unfortunately piracy has become a real issue for 3rd party devs in the whmcs eco-system since that announcement! One large dev is spending his days trying to issue takedown notices! It's an all-round awful situation! No doubt many are doing the same for the WHMCS software itself! As you say, the staff for the other company are great! HM is a nice guy and will have a conversation with you about the product, You can also have a conversation with the devs/staff that are now part of the company - That to me is priceless! I saw a 3rd party dev talking with a dev in the discord about some changes - Live conversation - With an answer + advise.. in minutes. To me.... that is invaluable to know it's there if/when needed and from staff who know the product inside out! But to me, I can't look back now! I'm firmly happy with my choice to move and my other brands will follow suit! Anyways, Each to their own I suppose - I was always a huge fan of WHMCS.... over the years that's been beaten out of me with lost revenue from the buggy software and/orterrible company decisions losing my trust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kian Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 I'm not a big fan of making such comparison. It's obvious that secondary brands always play the "bro-card". Exhibiting a customer-friendly attitude is the minimum you can do to attract customers. Ages ago in this very community we had the staff partecipating and actually listening to people. This is no longer needed when you affirm yourself as the leading company. Especially when you made competitors irrelevant for more than a decade. Everyone eventually ends up doing it. It's just a question of time (and money) before Blesta will turn into WHMCS. I've seen it happening countless of times. Every time a company increases prices or does something unpopular, a chunk of customers moves to the competitor that assures them they will never do that because they "highly value your feedback" or any other bull💩-catchphrases. Few years later they manage to become relevant and end up taking almost the same decisions so the cycle repeats. Join, invest time, leave, repeat. I've worked with hundreds - if not thousands - of providers and all these mass migrations to "copies of inverior value" never solved anything. The few that cyclically switch software because of things like price increase keep going backwards. Like it or not WHMCS is the best software to run a hosting business. Same goes for Plesk or cPanel. Every provider is free to move to competitors (Blesta, Direct Admin, ISPConfig... name one) but they're condemning themselfs to decline. I don't see how one can boost the growth of his/her business by constantly downgrading technology level and by using second-class solutions. I'm not saying that one should stick to one software for the rest of his life. I'm saying that one should leave the boat only if it is sinking or is bringing you to the wrong place. If you don't see any future with WHMCS then leaving is not only fine but mandatory. On the other hand if one is leaving just for price increase convicing himself that Blesta is better or because their staff is more friendly or again because they promised you something, let me underline that: Fact: WHMCS is better Friendliness will go away when it is no longer needed When Blesta will need more funds, who you gonna call? Price increase! Be prepared to leave Blesta for HostBill followed by HostBill, Ubersmith, ClientExec... In my opinion the real issue here is not if X is better or cheaper or friendlier than Y. You can take as granted that in this whole industry every software that counts costs you more and more. Or even worse wants a % of your revenue. This is the root of the issue. All software companies share the same needs (lot of funds) and adopt (or will adopt) the same revenue model. I don't see how bouncing between the same stuff can make a significant difference. My 2 cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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