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yggdrasil last won the day on April 8

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About yggdrasil

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  1. You got that wrong. I certainly have recommended Blesta as my first choice in the past and the main reason was that I was sick with how closed WHMCS is becoming. When I said some will not move I was referring as now, or in 3 months. Maybe in a year or two sure... It really depends on how Blesta evolves from this point on. Free dev license is something WHMCS also has offered for test installations. The problem is that those people cannot move to Blesta as today because there is no replacement for some specific things they need. And those that can code that solution, might seriously think on just rolling their own stuff instead of paying yet another product. I remember when WHMCS first announced they would stop selling licenses and go full subscription. Tons of people moved to Blesta, at least I saw how this community and forums dropped exponentially in people active. But the product never really changed in a radical way. I like to go to their forums from time to time to see the activity and still has changed little or nothing. Paul seems very open and receptive to things, but then I see people asking basic things which are missing for years which is concerning. I feel he is still the only main developer behind the whole product. Not sure if alone he can keep up.
  2. Maybe this? https://www.newsweek.com/adobe-cancelation-fee-twitter-users-argue-morally-correct-pirate-software-1583146
  3. Remind in 5 years. Their forums show they started these 5 years. It has so many missing things it will take them 20 years to even match WHMCS unless they start to hire developers left and right which I suspect they can't right now. Hostbill on the other part, its one or two developer company, and they moved at the speed of light, I would never work with them again because the owner seems like a crackhead, but he certainly is a good developer. Unless Paul from Blesta decides to completely make this open source, so he starts to receive free help from other developers, or he takes a bank loan I'm not sure how quickly he can progress. I'm watching Blesta for years now, and it has hardly changed. Every new major release adds tiny features which I'm ok if it was at the same WHMCS level but it's not. Its lacking behind, in a huge way. I'm sure it can and will work for 90% of the people, but some things I still can't replace with Blesta. I'm not saying they will not come, but I cannot tell customers to wait 5 years for something they have today. The reality is that WHMCS has no competitor and they are aware of it. Strangely WHMCS will put themselves out of that budget pricing based and its certainly not a premium product either. WHMCS quality wise is a poor product. But it was properly priced. Now its becoming expensive I don't see it becoming better either but the opposite with every new release. Unless you have money to roll your own solution, it looks bad either way. People will not stay with WHMCS but they will certainly not move to Blesta either.
  4. Ubersmith did the same. It was something like $24 a month, then $50, then $99 then they decided to go to 10% of your profits. The product has not evolved in 15+ years after that. Most datacenters I worked, killed Ubersmith lately 2-3 years later and now have their own custom solutions. I wonder why... Maybe when you start to charge people based on number of devices, servers and their total profits, it just makes sense for them to develop something separated. Ubersmith then tried to backpedal offering again a $99 license, but it was too late.
  5. Well, at least if Blesta ever decides to pull this off, most code is open. Sure, they could decide to start rolling new changes with encoded PHP in the future, but people would start to see the writing on the wall at that point ahead of time. I knew WHMCS was going to do this when they started to slowly remove things from Smarty templates and put them behind PHP ioncube files. I have started multiple rants here about this. It seems I was not wrong after all. It was all on purpose, to lock people in. The biggest downside for me with Blesta is only features, not the software, it seems stable, secure and flexible enough for customizations. Its just the slow development that concerns me. Still no proper domain management features....
  6. Maybe not WebPros but they could be sold to anyone in the future. Every other system did the same already, even Ubersmith. This is not the first time it happens, and it will not be the last time either. As much as I like Blesta for being open, they could not even come up with a decent domain manager in more than 5 years. People are still waiting for basic features... It will take Blesta another decade to even reach close to WHMCS in terms of features if they continue this slow development path. What guarantee do you have this will not happen to Blesta? WHMCS broke more than one promise before. Nobody cares. WHMCS will continue business as usual. Maybe with fewer users, but maybe that was their goal in the first place, to reduce the amount of users or smaller companies and get rid of what they consider junk. WHMCS is trying to target a more premium audience, they don't poor customers anymore. And if we talk about medium size companies, they will not use this trash either. Nobody in their right mind will use a closed PHP script like WHMCS or anything similar again. No serious company will risk their entire customer base and services to another company. Just pay the bills or move on. I already talked with people that can actually afford the new WHMCS pricing and all of them said they will not move based on principles alone and probably rolling their own solutions. Its not rocket science either. The chat module on WHMCS was always trash vs something like livehelper which is open source. Tickets? Same story, OsTicket is far superior. Its not as WHMCS has killer features. You can replace big chunks of WHMCS with free stuff which is better, more stable, open and secure. There are some things missing here and there but all products have API and database integrations to hook multiple products and softwares together.
  7. That is the idea! I'm surprised people are not aware why that investor group purchased cPanel and Plesk at the time, being competitors. And then also WHMCS. Isn't it very clear what they are doing? They are destroying the small hosting provider market. Their goal is very simple. Leave all those smaller companies out of business so their other hosting/cloud companies can grow. That capital group has one goal in mind. Leave most out of business or make it extremely hard for anyone to enter that market without spending chunks of money, money on them of course as they control the ecosystem. If someone else makes a better WHMCS priced at a similar price, they are just going to purchase that product as well. People seem to forget things like H-Sphere or ModernBill. Its the same story every couple of years.
  8. I agree, this is completely unacceptable. If someone decides to firewall their WHMCS servers (for security reasons) because they just told owned license holders they will not receive further security updates, WHMCS is now telling the world you are running an unlicensed site which is completely false. It's your right to protect your servers and installations and you certainly can stop any remote connections out to WHMCS while still being in compliance because last time I checked, its an owned license, not a cloud lease.
  9. If I have 1 customer or one million why should that have any influence on what I pay to run WHMCS? You seem to forget that WHMCS is a local software. It runs in your computer. A server, or a cloud server, is still a local computer. And you are the one paying for it, not WHMCS. It costs WHMCS the same if you have one active customer or a hundred thousands. Is WHMCS paying the support costs for my customers? How about the support? Or my electricity bills? If I have one million customers, is WHMCS going to pay my staff? You see, the bigger you are, the bigger your costs are. And WHMCS now wants more money based on nothing but thin air. You might say, but....Adobe....That is still a fixed subscription. Adobe is not charging you more per picture you edit, and they are certainly not charging you more based on profit. Even so, their model is mixed now, as they now bundled extra services with their local software because they realized people are not stupid enough to pay a subscription for only local software. And even, so their competitors have eaten into their market exponentially. Example, Affinity, I paid once, and still receive free updates since years now....and they are doing more than enough money. The justification to charge per customers for a local software is just insulting. And now going away with the owned licenses is related that those licenses having unlimited accounts. Let me say this again. Why does WHMCS care about my active clients? Its none of their business. Those are MY CLIENTS, not theirs. Would you be ok with paying Windows based on the amount of hours your computer is on? We are doing all the marketing, all the support, and all the hard work to keep every customer active (which is already very hard in such a competitive market) and yet WHMCS takes your profit per customer? The model is based on greed. I will not give them more money the more successful I'm if they are not providing me extra value in return. And they are not, the software is the same and does the same stuff regardless of the amount of active customers. In fact, it costs you more to run the software the more customers you have. You seem to completely forget this. If you have 1000 active customers per second on your WHMCS installation it will cost you a nice server with a huge database every month. And guess who will pay for that? Not WHMCS. And what is worse, at that size you probably want to run in a cluster (which WHMCS does not even support, which means it not even designed for bigger business) because you want to spread the load between servers or at least still stay online if one server fails. And guess what? And that point you will MORE Than one WHMCS license, because WHMCS will make you buy 2 licenses. I hope you see the problem here. The bigger you are, WHMCS already costs you more to run and this is not even related to licenses. Running any software at specific sizes is more costly and what does the company behind the software do? Instead of making it easier and more cost affordable, they make it even more expensive.
  10. I don't think they care about reviews. They will only care once they see income dropping. This will surely affect potentially new sales in the short time, but reality will hit them once people start to move off. It will take time, nobody is going to migrate quickly, but I think we are going to see the real consequences in 12 months from now.
  11. You are correct, but there is a big difference. You can build with Blesta without Blesta the company. With WHMCS you can't, they are locking you in for life. At some point you will be hit with something missing on any software or solution, and you have to start customizing things. WHMCS has become less flexible over the years, some dumb things are near impossible to do or require intercepting code, like having API error messages in the users' language just to name a simple example which is a 5-minute fix on any other software on which you get access to the code. Even if you have all the features you need today with WHMCS, at some point you will have a bug that stops everything from working, or have them remove something critical required for your modules or customization to work. What are going to do at this point? Wait months or years until they fix them? Every update is a new nightmare with WHMCS for the past 3 years now. This is not what you expect for a product they think is worth $1000+ a month. And for me it's not even about money. It's about trust. Today they did this, I'm 100% sure as I said before, they will kill the self-hosted version at some point. Then what? Will you move to that version? And once they get rid of the per-customer license and move to a profit % license? Asking you a % of your total sales? If you think all this is drastic, and they would never do this, this is precisely what people said about owned licenses as well and yet here we are, WHMCS finally pulling the plug. Blesta sucks in features today but being open for me could prove more important than anything at this point, because it's a question of time until other developers will start to build the missing parts, just like Modules Garden and other companies did with WHMCS. And being open code, means anyone can contribute and collaborate with what ever stuff there is missing. It's not what is missing in Blesta today, but you need to think when WHMCS will kick you out as well, by accident or by force. They are not interested on self-hosted licenses anymore. WHMCS is moving to a SaaS model, I'm surprised some people think this is just a price increase. It's not, it's a long planned move for years to completely change the entire company and product. WHMCS is going the vendor lock approach. Make sure you are using the product in such a way that it's going to be very expensive to move out, at this point they will just squeeze you for more money. Even if WHMCS costs $5 a year, do you want to keep giving money to such a company? The only people that I see defending WHMCS in this situation are those that think they have enough money to keep investing on WHMCS and think this will kill smaller players, and they will have less competition, or maybe they think they are big enough to pay any licenses fee they ask or just afraid to lose all the money, time and resources invested around WHMCS. More than anything those people are afraid their WHMCS investment is going to disappear as developers don't create modules for WHMCS anymore, or most people move to another software. Just one example, how many would even use WHMCS if it was not for the surrounding community and third party support? Do you seriously expect WHMCS to reply here to everyone for help and questions once most of us are gone? Or keep supporting more and more third party modules? They will try, but killing your brand and product has deep consequences. When people start to do what they did with WHMCS with other products, it's a question of time when WHMCS will be the next Ubersmith. That product has not evolved in years, and you will not find a single company developing anything for them anymore, their brand is now lost in time. WHMCS is going that same route. It's a dead product because they stabbed the people that made WHMCS what they are today. They completely killed new sales at this point. Those people will just research the product and find negative comments. And once slowly the existing base starts to move what are they going to do? New sales gone, existing income dropping... WHMCS was never about quality, but quantity. It was never the best product, but it was the best for its price range as it was affordable, and it was the amount of supported vendors, modules and developers that made it more valuable. All those paying users, while not giving them fortunes of income, gave them something priceless, an ecosystem around the product which make it more a platform than just another PHP software. Those that will stay, will have hard times ahead as WHMCS needs to keep squeezing them for more money, they are hit with more lock in features, bugs and issues, and this will be a lonely place soon as well. Once the outrage is gone, WHMCS will release new features, (even more buggy than before as they try to quickly advance) and invest in marketing and promotions and why not, maybe they will even consider backpedaling in some of their decisions to soften the blow of lost income, but the masks are off. They are moving to a SaaS model regardless if you like it or not. They are not a software company anymore, they are trying really hard to be a cloud service. And good luck with that, they cannot even keep this community running without an HTTP error every 5 seconds, wait until your business relies on them completely.
  12. Yes, I never heard of them before 2013, reason I never purchased it either. My point is that they are still in business after all these years. I expect them to go away, but they are still going and price is still the same it seems. The product is still developed. I'm not happy when I see in the forums they are working on a domain cart for 5 years now which is pathetic in terms of how slow they are. And seriously I don't think the product has changed much since 2013, but at least everything I read about them means the persons behind it are stable and serious business people. Maybe they can hire more people once they have more resources (money), WHMCS was actually far better, things started to downhill when cPanel invested on them. In that regard, maybe its a good thing to be small.
  13. Of course, it's cheaper to pay monthly. You don't actually believe people that purchased owned licenses are stupid right? 😄 The reason a company sells one time payments for a higher price and people are willing to pay, is because you see it as an investment, not an expense or monthly subscription. This is also why you can book it in accounting, as digital assets vs expenses. What has the date of the screenshot anything to do with this? If you purchased one-time before, you expect that purchase promise to be honored as long they are in business. Not new sales but previous sales? Every company honors them, unless they expect to never have new customers again which would be concerning for any company. And before you claim this is not sustainable plenty of companies do this as a reward to initial customers that made them who they are, at least with software that does not cost them anything as opposed to leased services. Affinity is one example. I truly have paid one time for both of their software and have received free updates for years now. Paul from Blesta said the same thing in a community recently, that they see it as a way to reward those that initially believe in his product and company. Its not as you will have one time sales forever, new purchases are a different story, you just honor those that actually made you as a brand and company and to finalize, it's not as they are not making any money from them anymore. I always have renewed support and updates and I also purchased all their extra add-ons and modules that are officially developed by WHMCS. Don't even get me into that link that goes to their terms of service. You see their sales page, read one thing, and then they change it. This is a very gray area. To back pedal on your initial selling promise. I purchased ONE TIME because they promised me I could then later buy support and updates per year. Now they are telling me, sorry, your one time purchase is worthless, and we are not going to allow you to buy updates from us anymore in the future. Assuming it was cheaper for me to pay by month, then it was a deception trick. I paid a higher price expecting to receive something of value and instead I paid more for something that will be worthless soon. How can you claim this is not deception? I paid for Unlimited Customers and Unlimited Staff and Unlimited products. Now WHMCS is forcing me to a limited customer model. This is not what I purchased initially. And they refuse to sell me further updates which is a way to force you out. Just wait until WHMCS start to charge you extra for every staff account and wait until they charge extra per active product you have. All my predictions about WHMCS over the years have become true. I said this before, their customer license model is only the start. If you expect to run WHMCS in your existing plan then I have bad news for you. Self-hosted licenses are completely going away. Even if they say the opposite today, they said the same thing about owned licenses in public. Trust me, self hosted WHMCS is dead. They will eventually start to push you out as they move to their SaaS whmcs hosted only. At that point, your database and customers are theirs, they can will probably move to a % model that charges you based on the amount of sales you make every month. Good luck if you don't believe me but that is what WHMCS is going for. They want to be sort of Apple that charges 30% cut to every developer and they force everyone to only be able to sell using Apple payments. WHMCS is going that way. I would not be surprised if in the future they completely ban modules like Stripe or Specific domain modules and force you to use their Reselling account and their merchant payment system. They want a cut of your business and they are not stopping here.
  14. That is concerning but if you want to go that route, I contacted Steinberg before about their software, and they took a week to reply with a canned reply. And they are supposed to be the number one music editing software in the planet, even used by Hans Zimmer for most of his movies. I expect this from some big companies, but I certainly expect a faster reply from a new small business or company that is mostly unknown. But I get your point, a software like this is critical when it comes to support. If we want to be picky, WHMCS support is also non-existent. They tend to reply in two days and its also usually a canned reply. In my experience, if you really are in troubles, WHMCS support is not worth $1 buck. You will probably find more help here in the forums. I'm not sure what kind of people they hire, but in my experience some of their staff hardly knows to use computers, less alone support their software. You don't need premium staff to post links and used canned replies. I feel its somehow outsourced, but even outsourced Third World country support is better than what they provide on level 1 help desk. Eventually you are escalated to someone that knows what they are doing, but it takes days and several replies until you get that far. They just want to close the tickets and go on with their day instead of actually trying to solve your questions. This is why I would have no issues with a version that comes with no support. I don't need it.
  15. In my experience how it looks has little to do with how it works in real world business. Hostbill looks great and is a buggy mess. Blesta looks bad and poor in features but seems to be very stable from everyone I talked about. More important, is who is behind the software. It's easy to charge little and make nice marketing pages, but it's a different story to stay behind your product once you start to hit a certain number of users. I never heard of them before until recently. At least Blesta is in business for years, they also sadly take years to even come up with basic features...
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