Owned copy of the software - what is happening?

[UnwilfulExpenditure]

18 minutes ago, bear said:

2.6 currently, and they won't change their minds on this. It's done. 
Just like the unsavory changes last time (and the ones at Cpanel), the anger will fade over time if they sit back and let us rant, then they quietly cull the posts they don't like, send people to praise at trustpilot and go on with their lives. A number of owned license holders will actually leave for other systems, some will (foolishly) stay, and the bottom line won't be affected much. They view owned licenses as a loss now, since the recurring income isn't enough. Leased is a stream of money that is far more attractive, and the price hikes for those will probably start again early/mid 2022 or so, once the new levels are in effect for a while. Trust me, they have a plan, all written out.

As soon as we can we're moving on. My leaving won't cause them any concern. In fact, all the owned license holders leaving won't either. They will push the leased licenses, and that's that. 

Sounds awful, but I want you and brian to leave - you're both the biggest contributors here and probably saved them countless hours of support 😂 Even 2 weeks ago, I read a discussion you were both involved in, that saved me raising a ticket to ask about the way something functions. I am not usually a bitter person - but I do want them to earn the money for support of those who choose to stay! Most of which will be small and reasonably large companies imo! 

[yggdrasil]

On 4/6/2021 at 12:13 PM, isdoo said:

I am very confused by the email that says that WHMCS is no longer supporting owned copies. 

What are our options? 

Why is there no warning? 

Very confused? 

What are your options? Moving to a monthly leased license, but those are also being going up in price.

Warning? Why would they do that, they need cash quickly and don't want people buying support packages upfront. Changes are immediately.

Confused? WHMCS wants more money. It's that simple. Your lifetime owned license is worth nothing, $0 because they want you to pay them more.

[yggdrasil]

2 hours ago, chrisb2012 said:

Serious question - would you trust them if they did backtrack? If they do back down it'll be to implement a series of price rise

I don't trust them anymore. Even if they back pedal tomorrow and regret their decision I will know they are just doing it as a temporary measure because they didn't expect such a strong reaction from customers, but that would be only temporary, the second the storm passes they will try this again.

They don't want us here in the future, we are not profitable for them. No amount of whining or complaining will change that. Just vote with your pocket. Even if you receive an email from them letting people buy support packages upfront. Don't! It would just be a quick money grab from them, eventually they will try to get rid of owned licenses again, and I'm sure their end goal is getting rid of self-hosted customers entirely. WHMCS is moving to a Software as a Service Company for years now, it was painted in the wall for years.

What they do is exactly what a software companies does, slowly over the years to get rid of selling software and only selling a service. There is nothing wrong with that, it's their business after wall. Just realize WHMCS is not a software company anymore. They are going to subscription for everything. And the more customers they lose, the more the existing ones will have to pay to make up for that lost income. Reducing the number of support tickets and cases by reducing your customers but keeping the same profit is just smart.

WHMCS will not lose money here, those that stay will keep paying the bills. They just focus on a different type of customers. The small host business is not profitable for them anymore.

Edited April 8, 2021 by yggdrasil

[Jade D]

1 hour ago, bear said:

2.6 currently, and they won't change their minds on this. It's done. 
Just like the unsavory changes last time (and the ones at Cpanel), the anger will fade over time if they sit back and let us rant, then they quietly cull the posts they don't like, send people to praise at trustpilot and go on with their lives. A number of owned license holders will actually leave for other systems, some will (foolishly) stay, and the bottom line won't be affected much. They view owned licenses as a loss now, since the recurring income isn't enough. Leased is a stream of money that is far more attractive, and the price hikes for those will probably start again early/mid 2022 or so, once the new levels are in effect for a while. Trust me, they have a plan, all written out.

As soon as we can we're moving on. My leaving won't cause them any concern. In fact, all the owned license holders leaving won't either. They will push the leased licenses, and that's that. 

Seems to have jumped to 2.8 now so some have been removed?

 

Either way, they deserve anything less than 3 stars after the stunt that they have pulled.

@brian! - any indication as to where you are thinking of heading?

[Jade D]

On 4/6/2021 at 6:26 PM, SwiftModders LLC said:

Absolutely disgraceful. As a developer of WHMCS products, you've not only hurt your clients but also handicapped developers with these outrageous fees. Will be re-evaluating many aspects of our business and our support for WHMCS moving forward.

I think its best that companies like yourself and your competitors decide to focus your efforts on competing product - just not too sure which one.

You guys could have a major part to play on who gets to be the next whmcs (without the greed). WHMCS needs integration partners as their stock integration lacks many features. 

[krokos]

1 hour ago, bear said:

2.6 currently, and they won't change their minds on this. It's done. 
Just like the unsavory changes last time (and the ones at Cpanel), the anger will fade over time if they sit back and let us rant, then they quietly cull the posts they don't like, send people to praise at trustpilot and go on with their lives. A number of owned license holders will actually leave for other systems, some will (foolishly) stay, and the bottom line won't be affected much. They view owned licenses as a loss now, since the recurring income isn't enough. Leased is a stream of money that is far more attractive, and the price hikes for those will probably start again early/mid 2022 or so, once the new levels are in effect for a while. Trust me, they have a plan, all written out.

As soon as we can we're moving on. My leaving won't cause them any concern. In fact, all the owned license holders leaving won't either. They will push the leased licenses, and that's that. 

Hear! Hear! Exactly as bear says. All this anger and frustration was expected.

[perdtmdehwhp]

I am trying to move to BLESTA.  They offer both: OWNED and Monthly options.   Branded Owned is $250, and $39 annual support/updates renewals. 

The only thing I see they don't have (that I use for my business model) is the "Billable items" feature.  I need it to add overuse to the coming invoice.

[SwiftModders]

10 minutes ago, Jade D said:

I think its best that companies like yourself and your competitors decide to focus your efforts on competing product - just not too sure which one.

You guys could have a major part to play on who gets to be the next whmcs (without the greed). WHMCS needs integration partners as their stock integration lacks many features. 

I will certainly be evaluating our options when it comes to WHMCS competitors I will support. My initial dealings with Blesta have been promising and they're open to supporting many of the developers who have been abandoned by WHMCS. I also plan to look at HostBill, ClientExec, and WiseCP. It wouldn't be feasible for me to offer themes for all of them, but I may choose two different platforms to work on this for.

It's frustrating for sure. I was closing in on a major product reveal for WHMCS that featured a full-site CMS. I'll still continue with the product, but now the prospects of ROI on such a product have been greatly diminished due to this trust issue with WHMCS.

Edited April 8, 2021 by SwiftModders LLC

[UnwilfulExpenditure]

25 minutes ago, Jade D said:

Seems to have jumped to 2.8 now so some have been removed?

 

Either way, they deserve anything less than 3 stars after the stunt that they have pulled.

@brian! - any indication as to where you are thinking of heading?

Yes, I got an email to say they want to check if it's a genuine experience! 😂 as if they don't know they've angered their entire customer base!  

[yggdrasil]

On 4/6/2021 at 1:06 PM, brian! said:

there are 101 different threads on this now - read them all now while you have the chance before their eventual deletion.

I suspect you are correct on this, some threats will be removed eventually. But this will cause even more backsplash if people move to social media and other sites on which WHMCS has no control over their opinions. Look at their Trust Pilot rating. Its sinking heavily....

People angry over price increases to services is one thing. But making your initial purchase now worth 0$. I cannot even imagine people that purchased multiple owned licenses in the past when they announced they would stop selling those....

Those people now feel scammed, as their investment is now worth nothing. Not to mention if they purchased third party modules, some people have invested quite a lot of money in WHMCS if you count everything. WHMCS not honoring those purchases is just wrong. It seems they did not had enough with just stopping selling those license and getting new customers. They seriously had to backpedal on their promises and now kill existing licenses as well. Expect people not to take this lightly at all. Humans don't like to be lied and it feels like that when you break things you said in the past.

I always thought they would just increase their support updates to unpayable prices to get us off of those licenses, but I never expected them to tell people you cannot purchase support upgrades anymore and move on. They really expected those people to just pull the trigger and move to a monthly license? You don't give a dollar anymore to someone you distrust now.

[Jade D]

9 minutes ago, chrisb2012 said:

Yes, I got an email to say they want to check if it's a genuine experience! 😂 as if they don't know they've angered their entire customer base!  

I'll be on the lookout for a similar email - did post a decent explanation of events.

[Jade D]

24 minutes ago, SwiftModders LLC said:

I will certainly be evaluating our options when it comes to WHMCS competitors I will support. My initial dealings with Blesta have been promising and they're open to supporting many of the developers who have been abandoned by WHMCS. I also plan to look at HostBill, ClientExec, and WiseCP. It wouldn't be feasible for me to offer themes for all of them, but I may choose two different platforms to work on this for.

It's frustrating for sure. I was closing in on a major product reveal for WHMCS that featured a full-site CMS. I'll still continue with the product, but now the prospects of ROI on such a product have been greatly diminished due to this trust issue with WHMCS.

Jump ship now while you can bud. This is going to affect your business and others like Modules Garden.

I've spent a * load of money with them and thats about to drastically change. So unless MG and others can start making modules for other vendors they and yourself are going to loose a ton of money.

Seems blesta is the best based on the communities response so far?

Im still looking at the various options available to us though.

[UnwilfulExpenditure]

2 minutes ago, Jade D said:

I'll be on the lookout for a similar email - did post a decent explanation of events.

Yes, they probably flagged them all as not genuine in the hope some get removed! 

For everyone who hasn't taken them up on their request to review them as a company - https://www.trustpilot.com/review/whmcs.com As they invite any feedback, make sure you give it them.... I have a feeling a lot will disappear from here 🙂 

[yggdrasil]

30 minutes ago, SwiftModders LLC said:

I will certainly be evaluating our options when it comes to WHMCS competitors I will support. My initial dealings with Blesta have been promising and they're open to supporting many of the developers who have been abandoned by WHMCS. I also plan to look at HostBill, ClientExec, and WiseCP. It wouldn't be feasible for me to offer themes for all of them, but I may choose two different platforms to work on this for.

It's frustrating for sure. I was closing in on a major product reveal for WHMCS that featured a full-site CMS. I'll still continue with the product, but now the prospects of ROI on such a product have been greatly diminished due to this trust issue with WHMCS.

Be very aware of HostBill. I sold my license with them. They do all sort of tricks and change their licensing price by the month.

They have changed pricing 100 times before. Their trick now seems to be that your purchase the modules but if you then later want the updates you need to buy them again. That way you keep buying the module every year if you want updates. And technically the software is worthless without the modules.

Instead of just charging a fixed yearly update, this model is even more deceiving. I also reported huge security vulnerabilities to their developer before and they claimed it was not an issue but how cPanel worked. Its not an issue when you can take over another customers DNS and hijack their entire domain? Well, that should tell you something about them. The developer them silently fixed the issue without telling anymore but insisted it was not a security a hole and then they decide to charge for that. The person behind Hostbill is a crook and some people even claimed he was probably a junkie based on how many times he changed pricing, sometimes even the same day.

Hostbill also seems to be based on a stolen WHMCS version 4. They now changed the code enough to have no differences but initially even their documentation was a plain clone copy. I would never trust Hostbill for anything serious. The owner is unstable. And could tomorrow just decide to close down the business and you will find the whole website removed. He is that unstable.

Edited April 8, 2021 by yggdrasil

[M7med]

On 4/6/2021 at 11:35 PM, PixelPaul said:

i am very interested in joining a class action against them if anyone else is.

I am interested, anyone else ?

[bear]

22 minutes ago, yggdrasil said:

I always thought they would just increase their support updates to unpayable prices to get us off of those licenses

Same here. It's what Kayako did, and I fully expected it. This play is even more insidious, as there will be takers. WHMCS wins either way. 

[UnwilfulExpenditure]

Sadly, they don't want to give anything but the party line - see: "We don't like price rises but gimme your money peasants" or the ever so engrossing fable told to us - "Most customers will only see a small rise Never mind that they had their pants pulled down with an owned license - we'll ignore that" 😂

Ahhh, In my humble opinion - they either:

1. Have sympathy but fear speaking out..... I'd walk from the job personally. *Me personally* I would feel like an absolute scumbag trying to justify it and sell the idea to customers who  *in my opinion* have a right to feel cheated

2. Don't care ...... Probably more to the point imo! 

Realistically they must understand the problem and it's not at all reasonable

[brian!]

1 hour ago, chrisb2012 said:

but I do want them to earn the money for support of those who choose to stay! Most of which will be small and reasonably large companies imo! 

that assumes that Support only answers issues from those who pay (via a license) for that support.... you'd be surprised at what's been going on the last few years.

1 hour ago, Jade D said:

@brian! - any indication as to where you are thinking of heading?

I stopped using WHMCS commercially back in 2019 when I got out of the hosting game - all I have now are a few devs and an old v5.3 install (with no public access) that was previously used for billing.

I decided back then that I would never use WHMCS for any business of mine again.... it's too unreliable, too buggy, poorly updated, badly documented.... life's more fun helping others use it rather than having to worry about having to use it myself, or worse still, expecting any clients of mine to use it.

i'll probably get the free WiseCP license at the weekend and have a play with it... if I was still in the hosting/domain game, i'd likely take a look at Blesta, but it wouldn't interest me to run a hosting company again... I did it for 20+ years, that's enough for me.

financially, i'm not exposed to WHMCS - the devs have less than 250 users and my dev work should account for less that 1% of my income this tax year (even if I flogged myself to death 24/7/365) - so I can walk away at any time with no impact to me if I choose to... I certainly won't be coding for any other billing solution as i've zero interest of going down that road - i'd rather just put my feet up for the next few years and enjoy myself. 🏖️

2 hours ago, Jade D said:

Seems to have jumped to 2.8 now so some have been removed?

it's 2.7 now. 😎

there are some weird 5-star reviews on there - I bet this won't get disputed lol !

I can't say that it's ever had that effect on me, but there you go... takes all sorts! 🙂

[UnwilfulExpenditure]

4 minutes ago, brian! said:

that assumes that Support only answers issues from those who pay (via a license) for that support.... you'd be surprised at what's been going on the last few years.

I have been aware of the rumours- I still hold the same stance that you and a few others have minimised their support in a huge way though! 

 

5 minutes ago, brian! said:

there are some weird 5-star reviews on there - I bet this won't get disputed lol !

I can't say that it's ever had that effect on me, but there you go... takes all sorts! 🙂

Wait.... should it not have this effect? 🤔 Maybe me and Old marky boy missed a hotfix!

[BigFoot]

On 4/7/2021 at 12:32 PM, isdoo said:

3.1

I guess most will be removed? 

down to a 2.7 this morning

[yggdrasil]

3 minutes ago, BigFoot said:

down to a 2.7 this morning

It was 2.6, they started removing reviews it seems or marking them as false with Trustpilot.

[BigFoot]

Just now, yggdrasil said:

It was 2.6, they started removing reviews it seems or marking them as false with Trustpilot.

interesting how they choose to remove them, as they all say the identical thing.... 😠

[UnwilfulExpenditure]

1 minute ago, yggdrasil said:

It was 2.6, they started removing reviews it seems or marking them as false with Trustpilot.

Yes I got the email asking for more information! They're trying to do that and I can bet money all this gets cleared out when the dust settles! 

[yggdrasil]

Just now, BigFoot said:

interesting how they choose to remove them, as they all say the identical thing.... 😠

TrustPilots is not really that trustworthy. If a company is paying them a subscription, they can remove reviews or flag them as false. Its like a mob protection model. You don't pay and get bad reviews, do you want to have the option to remove them? Pay us.

Yelp worked on a similar method. I assume WHMCS will just start paying them to remove the reviews.

[yggdrasil]

4 minutes ago, chrisb2012 said:

Yes I got the email asking for more information! They're trying to do that and I can bet money all this gets cleared out when the dust settles! 

That is how it works. They will flag them as false, and most people are afraid to provide further details because they want to avoid retaliation from the company. As long as you have a valid license, you have no idea if WHMCS will just decide to cancel it by accident. Not saying they will but just that most people will not go the extra step to provide additional information on their reviews if they are giving such low scores. As such they will just start removing them.

I did not review them for that reason. I understand how TrustPilot works and it's a waste of time unless that company has a free profile and cannot remove reviews. But I assume WHMCS has more than enough money to pay TrustPilot and in the end they do care about money, reviewers don't give them money, the companies paying do.

Edited April 8, 2021 by yggdrasil