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yggdrasil

WHMCS Turning into a Affiliate/Service Company?

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I just read this:

https://blog.whmcs.com/?t=127662

 

How disappointed.

 

What is happening? Is WHMCS trying to make money by putting affiliate programs into WHMCS installations?

I think that WHMCS should focus on developing the software, not on adding third party services into WHMCS. Don’t you guys remember when cPanel tried this? By adding and bundling third party services like the SEO stuff and others into cPanel? Do you remember when Sw Soft did something similar, but putting Virtuozzo ads in their login page of Plesk customers? They lost a lot of customers for that.

 

Both companies had a major black slash for this, you are not supposed to cut out your own customers or use a paid software to promote your partnership programs. I don’t think its morally correct for WHMCS to try to push other companies’ services into WHMCS. If you want to promote something in your site, fine, but don’t forget WHMCS is a paid commercially closed software. I didn’t purchased the software for this.

 

What if someone is already offering something like Weebly or a Spam filter and had a module in your store? How do you think those companies are going to take this special partnership of yours? Instead of letting third party companies’ develop plugins and integrations and letting your customers sign up directly with those companies I personally consider this a very wrong approach for a software company. You could be something that will send WHMCS customers to alternatives and this is exactly the way you do it if they feel the company is mismanaged.

 

You should not be bundling things by default from third party companies and surely not taking a cut either because you are making your own customers less competitive. The pricing will always be more expensive for end customers if there are so many middle persons in the sales process.

 

And Weebly? Seriously? I’m sure that 95% of your customers are hosting companies selling some type of hosted website service and you will try to promote a system that hosts their site in another company? Do you guys realize how dumb that sounds? It goes even against what WHMCS does itself as a software…

 

Weebly is nothing but an affiliate program. They give you a cut and you host all the data and hosting services with them. They do everything! At least SpamExperts has a hosted option. Sure, Weebly is great, but someone selling Weebly does not need WHMCS. You don’t need cPanel or domains, or ticket systems, or even bill the customers, or a server…. You can just send them on their way to Weebly. That seems like a very bad option for service providers. You realize that Weebly is leaving your customers out of business right? They are a hosting company technically and your WHMCS software is supposed to target hosting companies. So you are now trying to send all users to one single company?

 

I have a very bad feeling about this. It seems WHMCS is trying to make a quick buck by pushing sales through them. If you are turning into a service company and will compete vs your current customers. Then please at least inform us and be honest. I prefer to work with a company that is a software company and focus on developing the software, not bundling third party services into my servers. This is not a free software, we paid for it and it runs in our server.

 

The whole announcement sounds you have invested all your energies and focus on trying to sell third party services vs adding new features to the software. If your customers want to sell certificates, or a SiteBuilder system or some antispam filter, trust me, they already know how. Those companies should be doing the selling of their services, not WHMCS. I can’t possible imagine how you consider this a benefit for your customers. Do you really think that someone running WHMCS does not know how to install a module? I’m also curious if those integrations let you sign directly with those companies or they are automatically registered under a WHMCS reseller account, that would be very, very immoral as you are trying to make money out of our customers. Trying to push your partnership to our customers is something that breaks all rules in the software agreement.

 

Let me guess. If you have an agreement already, lets say with SpamExperts, you can't use that with Connect. You need to sign up with Connect and buy from WHMCS directly... The fact you said it requires no payments or agreements tells me exactly this. Its an affiliate agreement, you buy Weebly from WHMCS, WHMCS buys from Weebly, end customers gets a much more expensive pricing than if the company had a direct agreement. Similar to the Enom program where WHMCS customers could never access the best pricing slot because WHMCS had to also make a profit in between. This hurts everyone, WHMCS, WHMCS customers and end users paying a higher price. It seems to me that not only WHMCS but those companies try to ride on our customers.

 

Are we going to get paid for this? If Weebly wants a new customer they must pay almost $50 or $100 per new customer with advertising but now they expect them to get them for free from WHMCS customers database? Is WHMCS going to pay us for each customers we sign up?

 

Also, we know cPanel has a cut on WHMCS but again, more cPanel only specific features...you constantly did this in the past with Enom by offering only Enom features. I understand you are more open today with domain features realizing that not everyone is only using Enom but not everyone is on cPanel either. It seems unless you use cPanel only, WHMCS has less value today.

 

Take this as a positive feedback because I spoke with other WHMCS users, some hosting companies, some service providers offering other customers and they all have a very bad feeling about this. Usually when software companies start to do this, it means they are trying to make money or can’t innovate anymore and start to bundle things in their software. Except, WHMCS is not a free, open source software. It’s a paid one which makes things even worse.

Edited by yggdrasil

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Hello Yggdrasil,

 

First off congrats on the great name. Yggdrasil was the first linux distribution I ever installed, I suspect that may not be the reason you picked the name, but that distribution was the first step towards a career that has been really wonderful and I smile every time I see your name in the forums.

 

I work on the technical side, there are a number of business questions you raised that I don't have the information to speak to. I have spoken with someone on the team who can answer some of those questions, if you want I will PM you his email address. There are a few things I did want to clarify.

 

1) WHMCS Market Connect is off by default. If you don't want to offer these services to your customers, none of them will see anything about them.

2) The weebly services we offer don't have weebly host their sites, as part of our auto provisioning we make a ftp account that weebly uses to publish their site to your server where it remains hosted. DNS points to your server and if the customer chooses to publish a different website or install a CMS, it can overwrite what weebly wrote.

3) As part of how we delivered the improved UX around the market connect products we made some substantial changes under the hood that are useful for everyone who uses the product if you offer MC services or not. We made some fundamental improvements to product addons work. Product addons have a lot more settings now, they are able to be linked to server modules. This allows you to perform automated provisioning on addons in a way that was not really possible previously. I have previously had conversations with people about if they should sell their products as bundles or as a product with addons. Previously if you had multiple provisioning modules, you had to use bundles - not anymore. I think our power users will be able to better map the ideal workflows for them into WHMCS with this release. * Please review the developer release notes for information about modifications that may be required to make a server module work great as an addon: http://docs.whmcs.com/Provisioning_Modules_and_Addons_Developer_Migration_Guide *

 

 

4) 7.2 does include other features that we think will be useful for a broad range of customers:

 

* We introduced a new payment gateway (slimpay) that supports direct bank account to bank account transfers in the EU and UK. To accomplish this we introduced a new payment status for invoices (payment pending) and introduced functionality that handles payment reversals in a more automated way. These under the hood changes make it easier for third parties and us to develop additional direct debit modules and support more varied payment workflows.

 

* We introduced a new domain pricing table within the cart process. This was a popular request from our customers.

 

* We introduced API tokens which provide a more secure and stable way for external integrations to make API calls to WHMCS.

 

* We introduced some new authentication hooks (AuthAdmin and AuthAdminApi) that allow you to authenticate your admin users against a some kind of shared directory service. For large companies with lots of systems that employees need to login to, this allows them to provide a better UX for their employees.

 

We strive to deliver new features that address the needs of our customer base. Not every feature is relevant for every user. I am proud of the number of improvements introduced in this release. When you write an announcement blog your target audience is not always the more advanced users of the product. As they dig in, I suspect our power users will find some exciting things in this release as well.

 

Nate C

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Hi Natt,

 

Indeed, my nickname is based on the Linux distro, but I also happen to be a fan of the Viking era and Nordic mythology. :)

 

 

As for the information you posted, I don’t disagree with the Market Connect itself, but I was more concerned about the direction the software or company is taking. Not the feature itself but the way a company comes up with that concept and realizes it may be an excellent fit for its type of customers (when your customers are the ones selling directly to end users already, mostly service providers...)

 

I don’t think the typical forum user here is the actual profitable WHMCS customer. Hardcore, long WHMCS customers rarely hang out on the forums, they have developers or web designers, and usually are not very visible or loud even if they are using WHMCS for years.

 

 

This is in opposition to the newbie user that is launching a new site and barely understands not only WHMCS but sometimes even computers. That type of users will be active on the forums asking for help and feedback, and I suspect that was your core target with something like Market Connect. But are those the long terms profitable customers? In the long run, I don't think the Market Place will work. Just my point of view because I saw something similar in other companies before and rarely works because WHMCS customers are not the end users here, they are companies that sell different products or services to end users. Your type of clients that is profitable will not be attracted to something like this for various reasons but mainly competitive advantage and product differentiation. Boxed goods and services that look all the same is exactly the opposite.

 

 

The user that will sign up are the ones that promotes every possible thing that shines under the sun and has no real specific focus or is just testing waters. Are those the profitable WHMCS customers? That support end users, spend on advertising, branding, and create unique value to end users? You can't do that with a click and play system. End users may just go directly to SpamExperts or Weebly and skip the middle person entirely, or two in the case of Market Connect (WHMCS+WHMCS customer)

 

 

I don’t think those represent your potential customer base today. If I must guess they are not profitable in most cases. They are the ones that complain when a software now costs $1 more a month because in most cases they are not profitable or making money either.

More likely they pay the software a few months, or even a year or two and they shut down, or some just play with it for a few months. I’m not entirely sure why to put so much energy and development into something that will not be exactly a great benefit for the hardcore users and those are the ones that actually sell things.

 

 

The type of user you attract with an easy click and play solution is usually the one that has no real commitment to a company or product or his own offerings. Hence, they don’t want to make an agreement or stick to a minimum or risk anything. No risk no gain. That type of user rarely sells products as well because they are not severely compromised in a commercial way. The hardcore users, those that have deep integrations are probably not going to use the Market Connect.

 

The new API token and the AuthAdmin are indeed excellent features, in particular, for1 companies running Active Directory, LDAP or an external platform. Those type of users you will rarely see here. They require more features related to integrations and customization, not click and play solutions that can be customized, don’t fit into their services or even conflict with some of their offerings. I do happen to have a direct partnership with SpamExperts as well and it’s great to read how Weebly works now because last time I researched them, the website was hosted by them. At least they changed that, so great !!!

 

 

My point is that I wish WHMCS does not lose focus on what their customers want or require and as a software company you should stick to being as neutral as possible when it comes to agreements or promoting particular services or products. The reason is that if you are picking one company, you could be closing the doors to others that may see that as a preference over a particular brand. You may see this as a feature because you are giving users an easy way to start offering a new service, but you could also be sending a negative message to those doing integrations with WHMCs.

 

 

You should also not forget that this is not a mobile app store where you just take a cut of the end sale between developers and end users. WHMCS customers are not usually the end users themselves. They have to sell the services again at higher prices to make profit. So many hands in the purchase process is typically not a benefit for the end consumers. It just raises their pricing.

 

 

To resume. Let your customers do the business. WHMCS does not need to try to run their activities or even help them sell more.

As for cPanel. I use cPanel myself as well but that does not mean I will defend it over everything else. If WHMCS develops only cPanel specific features, it may again be very negative for the end value of the software, because people looking for a software like WHMCS may require something that works equally well on any platforms they choose. I have read and heard this before, people saying WHMCS is focused on shared hosting and cPanel only. While that is technically not true, that is what they perceive with the limited VPS/Server integration by default. WHMCS is also constantly criticized for being too simplistic and not a real fit for cloud services without a real metered or hourly billing system. While you can technically do all that with hooks and API something like Market Connect sends even a stronger message that WHMCS is designed for very simple products and companies.

 

That is false as I know how powerful WHMCS is and you can do hourly or metered billing, you can also integrate with cloud services, DNS services, IP management and make it as powerful as any other system. You can do this, and some of the modules from third party companies prove that. But that is not the image some people have.

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I have to agree with the OP here. This was probably the first thing that I thought of once I saw the 'market connect' nonsense.. From the consumer's point of view, that's exactly what this is.

Now, I realize, the business of WHMCS is just that, a 'business', and the goal is to make $$$. However, this is looking less and less consumer friendly, and more and more 'gimme gimme gimme gimme'. This certainly isn't the first thing that's made me think that, by any means, but yeah, it's definitely looking like this is the way that WHMCS is heading.

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Despite the upbeat corporate response from Nate, there's clearly nothing useful in 7.2 at all, as far as I can see. Just a lot of commission based products to attempt to make more affiliate income for WHMCS. While Tom observes that WHMCS is a business and exists to make money, the best way to do that imo is to provide what customers want. Crazy talk I know.

 

I just checked the feature request area and of the 3,012 requests posted there were exactly zero people asking for ways to buy Weebly, Spam Experts or Symantec certificates through WHMCS the company. None. But what we actually get is more Marketplace, Connect, App Store type schemes and no improvement to the core product :mad:

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Despite the upbeat corporate response from Nate, there's clearly nothing useful in 7.2 at all, as far as I can see. Just a lot of commission based products to attempt to make more affiliate income for WHMCS. While Tom observes that WHMCS is a business and exists to make money, the best way to do that imo is to provide what customers want. Crazy talk I know.

 

I just checked the feature request area and of the 3,012 requests posted there were exactly zero people asking for ways to buy Weebly, Spam Experts or Symantec certificates through WHMCS the company. None. But what we actually get is more Marketplace, Connect, App Store type schemes and no improvement to the core product :mad:

 

What is a bit ironic is that Google is going to drop Symantec certificates soon on Chrome, so not sure who exactly WHMCS plans to sell Symantec Certs. Unless someone is not aware, there is a beautiful drama going on now between Symantec and Google and its almost a decision now that Symantec certificates are going to be dropped from Chrome, and that includes Thawte and Geotrust as well because they are both Symantec...

 

Symantec is completely burned as a CA provider today. Most serious companies are dropping them already based on the couple of hundreds of wrong certs they issued and falsified (probably for government spying) including one for google.com itself. Google caught them and is going to penalize them as they already announced. You surely don't want to sell a Symantec, Thawte or Geotrust certificates today just to have your customers opening support tickets that Chrome shows them as invalid in a few months from now.

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As they dig in, I suspect our power users will find some exciting things in this release as well.

oh no... the optimist in me thinks there might be easter eggs in there somewhere... the realistic cynic thinks they'll be undocumented landmines that we may inadvertently tread on. :roll:

 

Despite the upbeat corporate response from Nate, there's clearly nothing useful in 7.2 at all, as far as I can see. Just a lot of commission based products to attempt to make more affiliate income for WHMCS. While Tom observes that WHMCS is a business and exists to make money, the best way to do that imo is to provide what customers want. Crazy talk I know.
Despite the upbeat corporate response from Nate, there's clearly nothing useful in 7.2 at all, as far as I can see. Just a lot of commission based products to attempt to make more affiliate income for WHMCS. While Tom observes that WHMCS is a business and exists to make money, the best way to do that imo is to provide what customers want. Crazy talk I know.

i'd basically agree with that - let's call them for what they are... sponsored products - e.g companies have paid WHMCS to add them to the core product... I don't want them nor will I ever use them... but I suppose if someone waives money in front of WHMCS these days, they're unlikely to turn it down.

 

I know that you shouldn't use analogies in threads, but if you imagine WHMCS as a car, it's engine has been misfiring for years, the treads are nearly gone from the wheels - but what do WHMCS do? they add a sexy rear spoiler, spray over some of the rust and hang a pair of furry dice from the mirror and then expect us all to be grateful. :roll:

 

i've no problem them adding new stuff, but get the default product working properly first before you do that.

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what we actually get is more Marketplace, Connect, App Store type schemes and no improvement to the core product

Sounds a lot like Windows 10. ;)

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Hey now! Some of us like Win 10 ;) .. It's not as bad as one might suspect, if you've got up to date hardware :P

 

Sure but he probably refers to the concept. Speaking of, how much software's did you actually purchased or installed from the Windows Store vs ones downloaded in the traditional way?

 

Personally, me, I rather buy the software directly from the developers websites and pay them directly, and while I can understand some may like the concept of a closed walled garden app like iOS, I don't actually agree with that in a moral sense.

 

 

People are not even aware how much % Google, Apple or Microsoft takes out from developers (another tax...). And not only that, it's a gateway and platform they control. If for some reason they don't like your app, it's gone and say goodbye unless you comply with their TOS (they removed games before for political, religious reasons?)

 

 

That may be great for consumers, but is it? You are taking control out of users and trying to create a monopoly on how companies can or not sell software to users.

 

 

Now, let's see WHMCS. WHMCS is mainly sold to service providers, or at least people providing some sort of services to other people. Some may do it with other companies, so may do it directly, so may not selling anything in particular related to WHMCS. Not everyone sells websites, or even hosting. With this said, WHMCS tries not only to control what developers are offering to WHMCS customers but worse; they are selling the services directly trough WHMCS. If this works, things can go south from here in a bad way...

 

 

Imagine the following. You cannot connect cPanel servers anymore unless they were purchased directly trough WHMCS. You cannot sell domains anymore unless you are using their Enon Reseller account. You could not process payment unless you signed trough one of their merchant providers (where they get a cut as well). I know this sounds Orwellian, but if you think about this, the Market Connect place is just that. WHMCS is the middlemen between what you sell to customers. I see this rather as an aggressive move from WHMCS towards trying to make more money out of its user base or someone that thought, hey we have XX, 000 thousand WHMCS existing installations, how can we make more money out of them....

 

 

I believe that this is entirely the wrong approach. Imagine if I was a company offering something similar to Weebly to WHMCS customers, now I would feel also excluded. I would not have any interested in developing my services for a platform that promotes its services. Not to mentioning this also hurts WHMCS users when they all start to offer exactly the same crap, everything looks and feels the same, that is what happens with boxed products that are click and play. This can attract such a bad users, that some people may decide not even to buy from anyone using WHMCS anymore (yes I read that before from people refusing to buy from a company because they were using WHMCS). That is exactly the type of users you attract with that click and play ready to sell solution. Mostly kids trying to make a quick buck for the summer and then leaving customers dry. People usually ask what X platform is using, when they see a reputable company, not 1 million sites selling the same stuff...

 

 

This hurts current WHMCS customers, WHMCS brand, and even end users that are paying a higher price for the same products. This can have nasty consequences for WHMCS as a brand in terms of trust because like they said, everyone can sell everything...

 

 

If WHMCS needs more money, they could have done this in better ways. Like maybe charging a one time fee to companies to be in the marketplace, (same fee for everyone, without price differentiation to be fair). A very small one, affordable for indie developers as well.

 

 

Then having a promoted section where companies or developers that want so can pay yearly to be promoted. Others can still offer their modules in a standard way. And the business relationship should always be directly from the WHMCS customers to that company. Not trough WHMCS as a reseller. That is the part I feel horrible wrong about.

 

 

This without mentioning the hell of nightmare scenario WHMCS is asking with this. Once abuse, complaints, etc. start to come, they have to support every single Market Connect customer, they are the resellers after all. I don't think WHMCS even considered this. The money they will make with certificates or those products will not even barely cover the support, and customer care costs those users will require. Newbie users are even more support intensive, and once they don't receive the support they want, they are gone...Time and money lost for nothing.

 

 

WHMCS could also have a premium support plan for those corporate customers that want to pay it. (not sure about the current support levels, but they could try). Some bigger companies may have this in their budget....

 

 

WHMCS could develop some extra modules that their customers would buy. Hell, personally I and others had asked before if the projects module was still receiving love or not. And yes, I would purchase it, just like I bought most official WHMCS module. Also, WHMCS already changed their pricing to a recurring model, and they also raised their fees. So that was not enough? I feel they are desperately trying to look for new revenue models with something like this, (pennies) because nobody is making money from certificates or domains unless you sell millions of units a year (Godaddy, etc). This surely does not send a positive feedback on the company direction. I would prefer if they fix bugs and focus on developing the software. WHMCS is a software after all, the more they stick right to their core, the better for them because the one thing WHMCS had for years, is its stability as a company. Please don't start playing games with new revenue modules.

 

 

As for existing users. I fail to see how exactly we benefit from this. I only see this as a disservice and more competition as well. And hurting the WHMCS brand once all those people start to offer every possible thing that shines under the sun...As a current customer, I don't see value in the Market Connect. I don't think anyone was asking for something like this either. I may try it just for fun or curiosity but not really as something I would use in production for real customers in the long term. :lol:

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Got to agree with the other guys here. I was very disappointed when I saw the announcement of the "new improved features"....

 

Weebly - I already offer an integrated Website Builder

 

Spam Experts - I already offer that

 

Symantec - I already offer SSL's and as highlighted above, I certainly would not offer Symantec to anyone now....

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I agree with this also maybe they try to make extra money because they not sale to much licence like before. All I be see that existing clients leaving one by one

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All I be see that existing clients leaving one by one

Sadly, this is what happens when management and staff refuse to listen to what their paying clients say. Those paying clients move elsewhere.

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Have to agree with the core point in this thread. I was dumbstruck when I saw all the "bloatware" for 7.2, I thought - oh well, time to move on.

 

I'm offended that WHMCS would try to push Weebly. What a joke.

 

Why not just concentrate on delivering an awesome WHM product instead of upsetting your core subscribers? I suppose that is too obvious.

 

@brian! and @bear: Both long time members with a wealth of experience - when you see these guys are upset and speaking out - you know you're in trouble!

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* We introduced a new payment gateway (slimpay) that supports direct bank account to bank account transfers in the EU and UK.

 

NATE, when did you not just go back with Gocardless which most WHMCS users use for Direct Debits as this cost nothing to setup and no monthly frees while Slimpay charges a min €29 a month, so not the best option for us members is it

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

What is a bit ironic is that Google is going to drop Symantec certificates soon on Chrome,

 

Yes here is the full story about this

 

https://www.thesslstore.com/blog/google-chrome-final-action-symantec/

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WHMCS could develop some extra modules that their customers would buy.

Exactly right. Things like that overly complicated menu system, in fact. Though this *should* come with a simple way to edit links by default, it doesn't. There's a paid third party addon, but based on the history of these addons, the authors have a tendency to vanish after a while. I'm unwilling to buy any third party addons that are encrypted because of it, or any in general because tomorrow I may be maintaining it myself. If WHMCS released a paid addon that allowed simple menu edits (sidebar/admin/client side), that I'd purchase, even if encrypted, as long as it worked (see project manager or android app) properly.

As for these marketplace addons like Weebly, that should be something we voluntarily and manually *add* to WHMCS if we want it (like a selection in the setup that states "offer and maintain the marketplace apps within WHMCS: yes/no", not have it in there and updated, with it at the ready to deploy it. WHMCS already has a pretty large footprint, and doesn't need a bigger one with each release just to add aftermarket bloat. I'm guessing that won't happen, since it's in WHM/Cpanel also, so it's something the partnership spawned, most likely.

@brian! and @bear: Both long time members with a wealth of experience - when you see these guys are upset and speaking out - you know you're in trouble!

I can't speak for Brian, but I'm just a complainer. ;)

 

WHMCS, if you're reading comments and listening, I have one.

If you want to keep your hold on this market you're enjoying now, get the core perfect, make it easy to maintain and configure, and lose the notion of all these partnerships for the sake of a bit more revenue. It's ok to make money, we all want to. Your product helps us reach that goal, but it's starting to encroach how we do so, and eating into our time to make things work the way we need. If another product came along that was more serious about competing (the two closest aren't there, but could get there if they concentrated on that) and simplified it all, you might find your share shrinking. That's bad for us all.

Take a moment and look at that "B" product (who's name I won't post here). It's overly complicated to set up and link products, last I looked (at the time, I was considering moving to it also). It lacks a lot of the core things that make life easy for providers, yet loads of folks have defected to it. To me, if I were the company that they were leaving, that would have me worried. A trickle can become a stream, and a stream a flood. We're fickle, hosts, when it comes to time and ease of use.

Edited by bear

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I can't speak for Brian, but I'm just a complainer. ;)

I don't mind complaining... i'd do it more here if I thought anyone in a position to do something about it was listening. :roll:

 

as Bear says, some day a product will come along, and by that time, it will be too late for WHMCS to do anything about it.

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WHMCS, if you're reading comments and listening, I have one.

If you want to keep your hold on this market you're enjoying now, get the core perfect, make it easy to maintain and configure, and lose the notion of all these partnerships for the sake of a bit more revenue.

 

I couldn't agree more.

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I'm still waiting on WHMCS to implement a faster/better way of doing configurable add on's and the ability to quickly clone an add on, i.e: if a server can have four hard drives, you create the option for the primary drive, then clone it three times since all of the HDD options will be the same.

 

We've been waiting on this since we switched back to WHMCS and if it doesn't start getting some serious attention, we will start looking for a new vendor that can do this. So frustrating that WHMCS makes adding new products so difficult and time consuming.

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I'm still waiting on WHMCS to implement a faster/better way of doing configurable add on's and the ability to quickly clone an add on, i.e: if a server can have four hard drives, you create the option for the primary drive, then clone it three times since all of the HDD options will be the same.

We've been waiting on this since we switched back to WHMCS and if it doesn't start getting some serious attention, we will start looking for a new vendor that can do this. So frustrating that WHMCS makes adding new products so difficult and time consuming.

i'm not seeing any new features along these lines in the v7.3 preview, so I would hazard a guess that you're looking at v8 before anything like this will be added.. which means next year.

 

I would have thought for something like this, it would be quicker to post in Service Offers & Requests and pay a developer to do it for you... the back end is just a database tables/rows manipulation/duplication, and then it's just putting a front-end to that process.

 

even if WHMCS are actually working on this in their development bunker (where time runs slowly!), they wouldn't give you an ETA for it... so literally, it could be added in a v7.3b2 tomorrow, or it could still be missing in v9 in 2019 - get a developer in and you might have your solution this week... wait for WHMCS and there's no knowing how long that will be.

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i'm not seeing any new features along these lines in the v7.3 preview, so I would hazard a guess that you're looking at v8 before anything like this will be added.. which means next year.

 

I would have thought for something like this, it would be quicker to post in Service Offers & Requests and pay a developer to do it for you... the back end is just a database tables/rows manipulation/duplication, and then it's just putting a front-end to that process.

 

even if WHMCS are actually working on this in their development bunker (where time runs slowly!), they wouldn't give you an ETA for it... so literally, it could be added in a v7.3b2 tomorrow, or it could still be missing in v9 in 2019 - get a developer in and you might have your solution this week... wait for WHMCS and there's no knowing how long that will be.

 

This is basic functionality honestly. I understand where you're coming from on paying a dev, but I shouldn't have to pay a dev to fix a basic shortcoming of a product that bills itself as a "complete solution". Just frustrating that something so basic isn't included in the core functionality and requires us to spend money to pay a dev to custom build this and fix it every time WHMCS makes an update to the software. At what point will WHMCS pay us back for all of this custom dev time when they finally get off their tush's and add it as basic functionality? The answer is likely never.

 

Just something so simple and basic and yet they overlook it time and time again.

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This is basic functionality honestly. I understand where you're coming from on paying a dev, but I shouldn't have to pay a dev to fix a basic shortcoming of a product that bills itself as a "complete solution".

I hear you... i'm just telling you how things are in reality, not how they should be - i've banged my head against that particular wall too many times over the years.

 

Just frustrating that something so basic isn't included in the core functionality and requires us to spend money to pay a dev to custom build this and fix it every time WHMCS makes an update to the software.

actually it's surprising, from a core functionality pov, in terms of product management on the admin side etc, how similar v7 is to v5 - in many ways (apart from minor styling tweaks), it's hardly changed in 4 years... they seem intent on adding features that nobody has asked for (MarketConnect, admin email logos, general settings password), yet hit them with a feature request or point out poor functionality and they'll take years to get around to solving it.

 

one day, i'd like to see one of the WHMCS guys work out the true average time for a feature request being submitted and completed - ignoring any requests that are "Already Possible"... surely the result has to be measured in years... if you go down the list of Popular requests, of all the ones marked as "Completed", i'm struggling to find one that wasn't originally submitted four years ago. :roll:

 

At what point will WHMCS pay us back for all of this custom dev time when they finally get off their tush's and add it as basic functionality? The answer is likely never.

Just something so simple and basic and yet they overlook it time and time again.

i'd like to hope that v8 will turn out to be a revolution and amazing - though I fully expect it to feel like a v7.5... in other words, the odd new thing. but basically business as usual.... let's hope that i'm proved wrong.

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Well they better get their head's outta their backsides and shape up the product, otherwise we will be forced to leave WHMCS a second time, this time looking squarely at Blesta. Which really stinks as we are in the process of doing a custom integration on our WHMCS. Now we'd have to do that all over again.

 

To your point that this is just a repolished marble, it sort of reminds me of the iphone. it's the same rubbish just polished differently and sold to you at a higher price. :) #TeamAndroid!

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actually it's surprising, from a core functionality pov, in terms of product management on the admin side etc, how similar v7 is to v5 - in many ways (apart from minor styling tweaks), it's hardly changed in 4 years... they seem intent on adding features that nobody has asked for (MarketConnect, admin email logos, general settings password), yet hit them with a feature request or point out poor functionality and they'll take years to get around to solving it.

This reminds me of Kayako (second time this morning). Feature requests for the owned licensed version were idle and seemingly ignored for years (most recently php7 support), with promises of "next version, for sure", which never happened. Then one day they announced a brand new version was being released, and every one of those requests (some were more than 6 years old) were rolled into it. It also ended the owned lifetime licensing, along with a horrendous and astronomical forced price increase (roughly $20K per year for far less seats).

Users left in droves.

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