Active services and One-Time billing cycle

[zomex]

Update:

These screenshots will give the community an idea of this flaw in the active clients calculation.

Still not finished, got some to go and all in I would say that I have been over charged by a good 2500/clients per month. Accounts that should not have been counted as active clients.

Product Addons

Also noticed that if you have main products canceled or completed but they have even a single product addon that is free set as active the client will count as active. So the client hasn't logged-in for years, everything is canceled yet one free addon is active and they are counted as a active client. So I now need to go in and do the same for product addons. My previous estimate of 2500 over charge is now easily 3000+

Edited December 31, 2023 by zomex

[zomex]

On 12/31/2023 at 12:30 AM, bear said:

Have you tried a feature request?

Haha as you can imagine they was already suggested via my ticket.

WHMCS are refusingrufusing to accept that there is a problem with their calculations:

Quote

As my colleague pointed out, a one-time product can imply a multitude of things beyond small orders - this is why it's computed as active, and there's no error in this approach.

So I have found out that this formula applies to product addons also. See attached for 1 example that is being counted as a active client due to a "Active" free product addon. Last logged-in 2012

[zomex]

Update:

I went ahead and handled all of the product addons and here are the results.

So in total WHMCS have been charging me per month for 3326 "active" clients that were in fact completely inactive by any logic. My WHMCS license has now dropped 4 pricing tiers

Tomorrow I will work out exactly how much I have paid WHMCS for the privilege

Edited January 1 by zomex

[WHMCS John]

Hi @zomex,

The service, addon or domain had a status of Active, so the Client Account is correctly considered Active for the purposes of filtering per the documentation.

If you're offering a one-time service with a definitive end point, such as a design service, you can change the status to "Completed" once the service is done.

Or if the service ends after a finite amount of time from purchase,  you can use the Auto-Terminate Fixed Term option to change the status to "Terminated" after that time: https://docs.whmcs.com/Products_Management#Auto_Terminate/Fixed_Term

Once you've told WHMCS that the services, addons, domains in the Client Account are in a terminal status, then they can be evaluated by the other conditions and set to Inactive status if appropriate.

After completing your audit, please open a ticket with Customer Service so we can adjust your license tier for the next renewal: https://www.whmcs.com/submit-a-ticket/

 

[zomex]

Quote

The service, addon or domain had a status of Active, so the Client Account is correctly considered Active for the purposes of filtering per the documentation.

As mentioned this is flawed logic. How can a one-time or free product/service be considered active? How can you charge us a monthly fee based on "active" clients for clients that are by all accounts inactive?

Quote

If you're offering a one-time service with a definitive end point, such as a design service, you can change the status to "Completed" once the service is done.

"Let WHMCS automate your business"

Where is the automation in having to manually mark orders as completed. Let's not beat around the bush. You have chosen to ignore free/one-time orders on the basis that it leaves false "active" clients that increases your revenue.

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The issue here is that you have changed the license structure (I don't actually have a issue with this as long as it's based on fair logic which it isn't). Yet you failed to provide tools to handle the one-time or free services. For example a after x days change status to completed or canceled. Your solution of termination simply doesn't make sense. How can a completed logo design be classed as terminated? That isn't a professional look should that client choose to return in future and become active.

---------

And now for the final results. How much have WHMCS overcharged me based on inactive clients being counted as active:

My first invoice for the new pricing structure was on July 2021 so 29 months of being overchanged.

The total overpayment over this period was: $3915

[stormy]

I'm speechless. WHMCS should absolutely at the very minimum credit that amount to you towards future payments, and that would still be a stingy move.

WHMCS forgets that some of us run VERY simple setups and fairer companies could be there really soon. What I fear is that cPanel would decide to close its automation and allow WHMCS only. As soon as they start losing customers I'm sure they'll "go nuclear" with this.

So if you are in the cPanel+WHMCS combo, better have an open source alternative for both if you want to move. We're held hostage here.

[zomex]

@WHMCS John I ask that you please take a look at ticket #QII-704679 - I would like to find a fair resolution here but it appears to me that you guys have no interest in taking responsibility.

Your official response is so poor.

Quote

Further discussing the matter with our management team, we would not be able to issue a refund retrospectively. As an active client is determined by the software, the appropriate license tier was applied based on the peak number of active clients in the system at the time.

WHMCS chooses they are active so they count as a active client. Let's look again at 3 of the 3500 examples of clients WHMCS were choosing as "Active".

Client 1:

Client 2:

Client 3:

New response:

Quote

I believe that changing the status of products from Active to Completed as suggested would then allow the automation to work as designed and set appropriately for at least the majority of the client accounts involved.

So in order for your "automation" to work i have to manually change 3500+ clients x1-5 products/services to completed.

Well I did, and it took me over 10 hours using SQL statements. Something WHMCS should have done automatically or at least used logic to ignore accounts that are clearly inactive at the time of the price increase/change of license structure.

Instead you didn't and over charged me $3915 over this period.

Edited January 5 by zomex

[SimpleSonic]

54 minutes ago, zomex said:

@WHMCS John I ask that you please take a look at ticket #QII-704679 - I would like to find a fair resolution here but it appears to me that you guys have no interest in taking responsibility.

Your official response is so poor.

WHMCS chooses they are active so they count as a active client. Let's look again at 3 of the 3500 examples of clients WHMCS were choosing as "Active".

Client 1:

Client 2:

Client 3:

New response:

So in order for your "automation" to work i have to manually change 3500+ clients x1-5 products/services to completed.

Well I did, and it took me over 10 hours using SQL statements. Something WHMCS should have done automatically or at least used logic to ignore accounts that are clearly inactive at the time of the price increase/change of license structure.

Instead you didn't and over charged me $3915 over this period.

I feel an account credit at a minimum would be completely justified in this case.

[stormy]

It would be SO EASY to do the right thing here, I can't believe WHMCS doesn't see this as an opportunity.

An opportunity to do the right thing, an opportunity to rebuild much needed trust, an opportunity to fix a flaw that's punishing clients undeservedly and making WHMCS look bad.

But no. They are choosing to pass and go for the quick buck.

Amazing.

[bear]

48 minutes ago, stormy said:

I can't believe WHMCS doesn't see this as an opportunity

They do, but not the one the rest of us see.

[WHMCS John]

@zomex,

Please can you confirm which of the available options you had selected for the Client Status Update setting at Configuration > System Settings > Automation Settings:

• Client Status Update Disabled - never auto change client status
• Change client status based on active/inactive products
• Change client status based on active/inactive products and not logged in for longer than 3 months

[zomex]

59 minutes ago, WHMCS John said:

@zomex,

Please can you confirm which of the available options you had selected for the Client Status Update setting at Configuration > System Settings > Automation Settings:

• Client Status Update Disabled - never auto change client status
• Change client status based on active/inactive products
• Change client status based on active/inactive products and not logged in for longer than 3 months

See attached. This has been enabled since it's been available.

The issue is not this feature. It's the fact that you count one-time and free services as a active user. Having someone purchase logo design in 2010, not login since and counted as a active client is not fair.

Thanks.

[zomex]

Day 20 waiting for WHMCS to do the right thing and refund the over payment. WHMCS's response is that the software did it's job and charged for the active clients 😄

[Damo]

That's very disappointing. 

Whilst technically correct, the documentation could have been a lot clearer by highlighting one-time and free products and/or provided tools on how to check the 'active' status (billable) of clients and products - a built-in report would have been ideal for that. 

Thanks for bringing it to the communities attention @Zomex. I'm sure those that come here and read the forums will be checking their systems. Sadly though, public exposure of these things really does not work in your favour of receiving any financial compensation (whatever form that may take).

[WHMCS John]

Thank you Zomex, those client screenshots and the setting confirm that the system was behaving correctly in accordance with the settings you had selected. The client account contained active services, therefore the client account was considered active for filtering and licensing purposes.

[stormy]

John, let me quote you from a related thread:
 

Quote

 

When we introduced our tiered license pricing in 2016 we committed to linking our success with the success of businesses using our product. The benefits an automation system like WHMCS provides increase as a business grows through the automation and time saving efficiencies it creates, and far from punishing success our pricing encourages it with a reduced cost-per-client.

We are committed to helping our customer's businesses succeed. In recent times, we have continued our mission to automate and help scale our customers’ businesses with features, functionality and integrations that improve end user experience, increase opportunities for conversions, and expand support for newer technologies.

 

I fail to see how in this particular case you are encouraging this customer's success and helping him automate and scale his business.

Call me crazy, but it certainly looks as if WHMCS simply are happy to keep an extra $3,915 that was paid out to them by mistake. This payment could have been avoided if the WHMCS automation behaved correctly, OR if the customer went MANUALLY through each one-time service to change it as Completed. That's some fine automation right there, no?

[Damo]

In the next release, and in the interim an SQL query, can we see an option to set one-time and free billing item to 'completed' after x time? This is automation setting that would be easily implemented and that makes commercial sense. 

Since posting a few minutes ago, I realised that there are many talented people that could create a hook that would achieve this and not rely on a development change. 

Edited January 16 by Damo

[bear]

5 hours ago, WHMCS John said:

the system was behaving correctly in accordance with the settings you had selected

Did you miss this part, John?
"you count one-time and free services as a active user"

[WHMCS John]

Yes exactly, all services are treated the same regardless of the billing cycle.  If certain billing cycles were treated differently we would have documented as such 🙂

Even on free one-time or low margin services, WHMCS is delivering value to your business by automating signup, billing and provisioning and allowing these users to self-manage their services, minimising the overheads of manually performing these actions. Additionally it allows clients to self-service upgrade to paid services and addons.

[zomex]

7 hours ago, WHMCS John said:

Thank you Zomex, those client screenshots and the setting confirm that the system was behaving correctly in accordance with the settings you had selected. The client account contained active services, therefore the client account was considered active for filtering and licensing purposes.

John are you actually serious or is it a wind up at this point? You are blind to the fact that WHMCS failed in understanding what is and what isn't an active client. How can a free product or addon cause a client who hasn't logged-in for 10 years or paid any invoice to be active? Are you telling me software with 15+ years of development, hundreds of staff, multi-million dollars in monthly revenue has such a basic and flawed logic. "If a product is active, client is active".

If your argument is that your software that prides itself on automation required me to go in and manually change one-time and free products to "completed" in order for your "automation" to work correctly (took 10 hours using SQL statements - would easily take weeks manually). This alone makes no sense, if you price your software based on active clients yet fail to automate what is and what isn't an active client. But on top of that when did you or your team ever mention that one-time and free products must be changed to completed in or since the change in 2021? This has never been mentioned, as such you guys have caused me to overpay you just under $4000 since 2021.

It is a matter of doing what is right and treating your clients with respect. You may think that there is nothing that I can do but you would be wrong to assume. I am a man of principal and will make every effort to ensure that your clients who are in the same boat as me understand what your software is doing and understand exactly how to resolve the issue even if I have to provide it as a service.  If a tiny company such as mine overpaid you $4000 I can only imagine how much income is actually from false "active" clients. $4000 is pocket change for your company yet it is meaningful for my small company. I have no issue creating and promoting a video which highlights the issues I have raised in this thread, your companys response and more importantly how to fix WHMCS's failed client logic.

Edited January 16 by zomex

[zomex]

7 hours ago, Damo said:

In the next release, and in the interim an SQL query, can we see an option to set one-time and free billing item to 'completed' after x time? This is automation setting that would be easily implemented and that makes commercial sense.

Don't worry John has already kindly created me a feature request for this in the waste land that is WHMCS feature requests. Unless a request contains the words "market", "connect" or "bloat" it will not make it to the software.

As no one bothers to vote on requests due to WHMCS's clear disregard for improving the software he can use it to convince himself and his team that it is not a required feature.

[zomex]

Day 30 waiting for WHMCS to do the right thing and refund the over payment. Ignoring my response won't fix the issue @john.

 

[bear]

35 minutes ago, zomex said:

Ignoring my response won't fix the issue

He's denied it is an issue, so ignoring will likely continue. The denial tends to make it seem like you're being unreasonable, even if you're not.

[AALayer]

I don't use WHMCS for my clients(billing) however i do see @zomex point and believe he is totally right.

One-time payments for starters such as logo designs, in my opinion should be counted as 'active' only on the paid month. The upcoming month it should go back to 'inactive' or whatever tag it has not to be counted as an active client. Unless ofcourse he purchases or buys another service.

Also changing all clients to 'completed' just to mark that the client is no longer active or has active service is crazy and far away from 'automation'.

[zomex]

Returning yet again to bump this thread. Since John has censored the post title it doesn't quite have the same impact.

My urge to create a youtube video exposing this issue and showing how to solve it is increasing day by day. But I am holding out hoping that WHMCS do the right thing.

 

Edited February 26 by zomex