Active services and One-Time billing cycle

[zomex]

Hello,

Just took a look through my WHMCS and realised that what WHMCS is counting as an active client is either very disingenous or perhaps there is a glitch with my WHMCS.

Checking the license definition from WHMCS:

What counts as an Active Client?

An Active Client is defined as any client with at least one active product, service, addon or domain.

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In my situation I have used WHMCS to:

• - provide quotes using a WHMCS product (free service). So I have many "clients" who requested a quote from back in 2010. This of course is a active product but they have not logged-in since. $0 payments made.
• paid for a one-time service such as logo design from as far back as 2010, not logged-in since.

Is it reasonable to class the above as clients? I could agree with say a year from the time of the activity as I benefited from WHMCS's function over that time. They are a client but an active client?

I was glad to see that affiliates do not count as clients after not logging-in for 3 months. But I would like to hear from WHMCS regarding the above and from other users.

@whmcs as every day passes my motivation to drop WHMCS for one of your competitors increases and that pains me to say as a active user since 2009. Someone who would look forward to beta testing and got excited about new versions way back then. These days every update is a disappointing, software bloating money grab i.e market connect junk that no one wants.

Thanks

Edited December 25, 2023 by zomex

[Damo]

If the client hasn't logged in for more than 3 months then have them set as inactive. 

https://docs.whmcs.com/Automation_Settings#Client_Status_Update

A quote provided to someone in 2009 really isn't a client. For a billing platform a client is someone being billed (actively). 

[zomex]

23 minutes ago, Damo said:

If the client hasn't logged in for more than 3 months then have them set as inactive. 

https://docs.whmcs.com/Automation_Settings#Client_Status_Update

A quote provided to someone in 2009 really isn't a client. For a billing platform a client is someone being billed (actively). 

I already have this enabled and have done for many years.

If you check WHMCS's what is a client? It says any client that has a active product.

In both my examples they have a "active" free or one time product. So WHMCS is counting them as active clients.

I hope this should not be the case and there's a glitch with my system but I fear this is indeed WHMCS's correct count as a active client.

[bear]

Just one of many reasons the "pay per client" model fails for something like this. Quite a lot of my current clients don't log in at all once they've ordered. Tickets are done via email or contact form, and billing is generally handled via sub or check and so on. Old logo design, long completed design/redesign projects and more mean I have a ton of "active" clients and can't use the automatic inactive marking to change that. 

My WHMCS use goes back even further than yours, Zomex, and if there was an alternative that wasn't a far worse choice (at present), we'd have already moved. Of the three majors, each have limitations or outright "no way" things that are deal breakers for me. For me to even consider any of those, indicates to me at least, that WHMCS has lost my trust.

[zomex]

10 minutes ago, bear said:

Just one of many reasons the "pay per client" model fails for something like this. Quite a lot of my current clients don't log in at all once they've ordered. Tickets are done via email or contact form, and billing is generally handled via sub or check and so on. Old logo design, long completed design/redesign projects and more mean I have a ton of "active" clients and can't use the automatic inactive marking to change that. 

My WHMCS use goes back even further than yours, Zomex, and if there was an alternative that wasn't a far worse choice (at present), we'd have already moved. Of the three majors, each have limitations or outright "no way" things that are deal breakers for me. For me to even consider any of those, indicates to me at least, that WHMCS has lost my trust.

It's absolutely shocking and even more so that they are unlikely to bother responding to this. I would say a good 40-50% of my "active" clients fall into this category. I have been paying 1-2 tiers higher than the reality of my business since they introduced this.

Effectively overcharged by WHMCS by $1000/year at the least.

The reason I even double checked this was because I am planning on launching a free product on the hopes of them becoming a "real" active client over time. Based on this revelation it's clear that I would be shooting myself in the foot using WHMCS for this purpose.

I will give WHMCS time to reply to this and hope they do.

[zomex]

Update:

I did a little test.

Found 2 clients both with one-time products. Inactive for many years.

The first I set to inactive

The second I canceled all products and set to inactive.

Checked the client count and it was down by 2.

After the cron run I checked the client account and 1 client was added back.

So in conclusion WHMCS does indeed count clients with an active product whether it be free or one-time as active regardless of activity.

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@whmcs is this what you consider fair pricing? I am looking forward to your response. If that does not come I will find a way to take this matter further.

[bear]

So even though you'd marked one as inactive, the cron put him back because the product still was?

[zomex]

43 minutes ago, bear said:

So even though you'd marked one as inactive, the cron put him back because the product still was?

Yes correct.

The product was left set to active (one payment for a one time service). WHMCS sees the product is active and sets the client back to active.

 

[Damo]

5 hours ago, zomex said:

The product was left set to active (one payment for a one time service). WHMCS sees the product is active and sets the client back to active.

Is the one time service an ongoing service? If so then I would consider the client is still active, but the client is not providing continued income to you.  

In this case it would be good if WHMCS considered the income as opposed to active status of a free product. 

[zomex]

3 hours ago, Damo said:

Is the one time service an ongoing service? If so then I would consider the client is still active, but the client is not providing continued income to you.  

In this case it would be good if WHMCS considered the income as opposed to active status of a free product. 

No it's not. It's a one time service.

Someone orders something in 2010, pays one-time. WHMCS now consider that a perminant "active" client. The same with free products/services. WHMCS consider them a active client for life.

Also note that these clients have not logged-in to their account for over 12 years.

WHMCS market their software as "perfect for web designers" but this confirms that WHMCS is only suitable if you want to provide web hosting. Without the recurring income the license structure of WHMCS is dreadful. How can a free and one-time product count as a active client?

I have a free product I provided in back in 2013. I had 450 people order it. They have not logged-in since but as it's a "active" product even though it's free WHMCS count it as 450 active clients. $0 income but I am paying for 450 active clients every month in this one example.

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by zomex

[zomex]

Day 1 we have a example of a client who ordered a one-time product in 2011 and has not logged-in since. 12 years later this is what WHMCS consider a "active" client.

 

[Damo]

47 minutes ago, zomex said:

No it's not. It's a one time service.

Someone orders something in 2010, pays one-time. WHMCS now consider that a perminant "active" client. The same with free products/services. WHMCS consider them a active client for life.

Also note that these clients have not logged-in to their account for over 12 years.

Ouch.  Now I understand it.

Surely this is a bug / flaw where cases of one-time or free products would not be counted toward the active client count.  I can see from the other side that unless it gets set to something other than Active the system cannot consider it as anything else.  Perhaps another automation setting in WHMCS would be set to these products as inactive after other defined conditions are met. 

Have you tried contacting WHMCS support and asking for it to be reviewed by management?  I would like to think that they would review the details in particular for the tiering of license you have been paying.

[bear]

Shocking this wasn't considered (if it in fact wasn't) when the product went to the per client pay model. Using "any active product" is obviously flawed.
Of course, it's not unheard of in this new era of the product that things that favor additional income skew towards their favor. 

[SimpleSonic]

4 hours ago, bear said:

Shocking this wasn't considered (if it in fact wasn't) when the product went to the per client pay model. Using "any active product" is obviously flawed.
Of course, it's not unheard of in this new era of the product that things that favor additional income skew towards their favor. 

It's simply an oopsie daisey on their part! 😁

On a serious note, what constitutes an "Active" client definitely needs improvement.

I feel an "Active" client should be a client with an active, recurring service.

For example, a "client" that attempts to sign up and is blocked due to the order being fraudulent should not be considered an "Active" client, but it is.

 

[zomex]

10 hours ago, Damo said:

Ouch.  Now I understand it.

Surely this is a bug / flaw where cases of one-time or free products would not be counted toward the active client count.  I can see from the other side that unless it gets set to something other than Active the system cannot consider it as anything else.  Perhaps another automation setting in WHMCS would be set to these products as inactive after other defined conditions are met. 

Have you tried contacting WHMCS support and asking for it to be reviewed by management?  I would like to think that they would review the details in particular for the tiering of license you have been paying.

I believe the only reasonable solution would be take into account one-time and free payment terms when calculating active clients. Setting a logo design service to canceled does not seem very user friendly even though technically it makes no difference.

10 hours ago, bear said:

Shocking this wasn't considered (if it in fact wasn't) when the product went to the per client pay model. Using "any active product" is obviously flawed.
Of course, it's not unheard of in this new era of the product that things that favor additional income skew towards their favor. 

Indeed, it being flawed by design is my worry.

5 hours ago, SimpleSonic said:

It's simply an oopsie daisey on their part! 😁

On a serious note, what constitutes an "Active" client definitely needs improvement.

I feel an "Active" client should be a client with an active, recurring service.

For example, a "client" that attempts to sign up and is blocked due to the order being fraudulent should not be considered an "Active" client, but it is.

 

Yes I agree, but even with a one time service you could argue they are a active client for x amount of time. E.g become inactive after 3 months of not logging in.

I checked my system. Users who only have fraud orders on their account have been marked as inactive by the cron.  So that doesn't appear to be a issue.

[Damo]

8 hours ago, zomex said:

believe the only reasonable solution would be take into account one-time and free payment terms when calculating active clients. Setting a logo design service to canceled does not seem very user friendly even though technically it makes no difference

So a status of something like 'Completed' or 'Finalized' (Finalised here in Australia and the UK) that would be treated as Canceled (Cancelled as per previous) could work. 
 

Maybe a change of the current language string (translation) could make it appear nicer to the user if it has to be a work around. 

[zomex]

6 hours ago, Damo said:

So a status of something like 'Completed' or 'Finalized' (Finalised here in Australia and the UK) that would be treated as Canceled (Cancelled as per previous) could work. 
 

Maybe a change of the current language string (translation) could make it appear nicer to the user if it has to be a work around. 

Yes that would be reasonable.

But I still think it would be better to not count one-time or free services as a active client if not logged-in after x time.

[zomex]

Day 2, active client number 2 (I have thousands of these examples and will continue to post to bump this thread until it's being taken seriously).

Speaking to WHMCS via my ticket they suggest setting the status of these to either canceled or completed. Obviously I have thousands of examples of these. A product purchased and not used with a status of completed doesn't make much sense.

It is a reasonable idea to use the completed status for services but we need a way to automate this. E.g on the product set status as completed after x days.

[SimpleSonic]

20 hours ago, zomex said:

I believe the only reasonable solution would be take into account one-time and free payment terms when calculating active clients. Setting a logo design service to canceled does not seem very user friendly even though technically it makes no difference.

Indeed, it being flawed by design is my worry.

Yes I agree, but even with a one time service you could argue they are a active client for x amount of time. E.g become inactive after 3 months of not logging in.

I checked my system. Users who only have fraud orders on their account have been marked as inactive by the cron.  So that doesn't appear to be a issue.

I had the Client Status Update set to 3 months, so that makes sense why I am still seeing clients with recent fraud orders as Active.

Client statuses for one-time services definitely still needs work though. Automatically changing the client status to "Complete" once the service is activated would make sense.

[zomex]

1 hour ago, SimpleSonic said:

I had the Client Status Update set to 3 months, so that makes sense why I am still seeing clients with recent fraud orders as Active.

Client statuses for one-time services definitely still needs work though. Automatically changing the client status to "Complete" once the service is activated would make sense.

Yeah that would be best. And for existing orders they could simply add a change order status to this page:

/whmcs_admin/services/other

The mass select is already there.

3 minutes ago, bear said:

Holding your breath until blue in the face and passing out will have the same affect on them. 😉
None.

Haha you are most likely correct but we can only try.

[RadWebHosting]

For clients that have one-time purchases, such as I might expect you to face at @zomex, you might consider changing their product status from 'Active' to 'Completed'. This should allow you to cut down on some 💲

Edited December 27, 2023 by radwebhosting

[zomex]

10 hours ago, radwebhosting said:

For clients that have one-time purchases, such as I might expect you to face at @zomex, you might consider changing their product status from 'Active' to 'Completed'. This should allow you to cut down on some 💲

Yes that seems to be the best solutuion. I am in that process but I have thousands of examples I need to update. WHMCS could make this a lot better with a bulk edit status option on the products search page.

[SimpleSonic]

4 hours ago, zomex said:

Yes that seems to be the best solutuion. I am in that process but I have thousands of examples I need to update. WHMCS could make this a lot better with a bulk edit status option on the products search page.

For that many, you'd be better off just editing the database manually with SQL.

[zomex]

39 minutes ago, SimpleSonic said:

For that many, you'd be better off just editing the database manually with SQL.

I agree, that looks like the only option.

[sitedata]

3 hours ago, SimpleSonic said:

For that many, you'd be better off just editing the database manually with SQL.

 

2 hours ago, zomex said:

I agree, that looks like the only option.

Database queries are a WHMCS administrator's best friend