Charging structure changes

[ManagedCloud-Hosting]

12 hours ago, zitu4life said:

I guess WHMCS should introduce some kind of new line of licenses created designated  for developers perhaps with limit of clients, not unlimited,

WHMCS is just not going to do anything for anyone and it must have been a plan to create a community and addons/modules now when they have grown big they have new plans to grow even bigger and STOP Supporting the developers / small and medium hosts so that they look else where and WHMCS can milk the bigger clients while their absolutely unprofessional support team makes more money by requesting clients to flag their tickets for priority and keeps on charging clients exorbitantly.  

 

https://preview.codecanyon.net/item/neo-billing-accounting-invoicing-and-crm-software/full_screen_preview/20896547?_ga=2.207849618.108136416.1618125673-104177820.1616085244&_gac=1.20652746.1618125673.CjwKCAjwvMqDBhB8EiwA2iSmPKZ9AeePfy0d8wiijxdifhoSGPvqxNIiPOn-uwLTEsPdzObnTXLj3RoC-WcQAvD_BwE

Check the below demo and the price it comes for - though it does not comes with a Shopping cart we plan to use WooCommerce (Guest Checkout), This package also includes basic accounting included for free, Getting rid of WHMCS for GOOD is now a primary concern. Also why the very talented developers are not working together to build something like this and the whole community can buy the same. You already have a ready market What's holding you guys back ? Please think about this one at least...

 

11 hours ago, chrisb2012 said:

Yes, I feel like I know brian! Such a weird concept for an Internet stranger!

When you contact @brian! for a problem you are facing he thinks about it 360 degree and offers multiple ways to solve the issue, that means he thinks about the cause more than we understand and face by ourselves using  his expertise. His brilliant approach to resolve issues have helped everyone including me many times and I will always be thankful to him. 

 

11 hours ago, bear said:

I'm not sure his notion of leaving is tied to lack of a license. Sounds more to me like he's decided they aren't deserving of his efforts any more with this latest stunt.

Anyone who does work whole heartedly would feel let down by such a CHEAP stunt and to me that's unacceptable and I had been trying out WordPress last 6 months for achieving the same what WHMCS Billing does apart from the Server Management Part. 

If people remember there was a cPanel / WHM ,management software that came up and suddenly it was sold - https://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1395396 , I had tested the demo and it had many features and management was easy with multiple roles just worked fine but was sold out I don't know why.

I am looking for such a software again which can be used only for server management.  

 

 

[brian!]

19 hours ago, zitu4life said:

And I would expect that WHMCS realizes that having you here is a must for their software and getting this community what it is now.

they won't - there were others here before me and they'll be others after me.

19 hours ago, zitu4life said:

I guess WHMCS should introduce some kind of new line of licenses created designated  for developers perhaps with limit of clients, not unlimited, but not for any developer, but for those who are officially registered on marketplace with reliable review, and deliver more value to their software,  and those license could be emitted with certain criteria. So this mean most of owned license that are developer, will not be affected by end of life OWNED LISENCE.

I don't see the point of that - if they're in Marketplace, then they're (usually) commercial entities and, one would hope, making money... and if that's the case, they can factor the license costs into their pricing.

19 hours ago, zitu4life said:

And of course for Brian, no criteria, they should just emailed you your new license, and only asked total amount needed for testing v8 v7 v6 v5 etc.

the license pricing changes will have no effect on me in the short-term... I haven't used the owned license in years (i'd have probably sold it last year if that had still been an option)... and any changes to leased licenses wouldn't kick in for me until next year.

this part will get deleted, but you can get a free license for being a GearHead - I lost the free updates when I resigned, but I much prefer having independent licenses and having the freedom to speak my mind.... if only i'd held on to the rank, I might have got a free mouse mat and pen from Kipling LOL.  😎

days after that reply from him, I quit being a GearHead... I have NEVER regretted it... he thinks my reputation is based on some pathetic rank that Infopro imposed on me... it's not - nor is it based on a reputation points score.... hell ChrisD trashed those scores many years ago with an update he ran - my figure is correct, so is his (upto a point lol), but some of the long-serving posters will have lost tens of points.. but hey ho, who cares about that - with nearly 3 million people dead from the pandemic, it throws everything else going on here into a little perspective!

18 hours ago, bear said:

I'm not sure his notion of leaving is tied to lack of a license.

it's not - i'm not looking for a license or job from WHMCS.

the one thing that you need with WHMCS is hope... you want things to be better tomorrow than they are today.... you want to see a direction of travel that allows you to think, well the current version is a little crap, but things are improving... and I don't mean empty promises in a blog post, but tangible evidence of change.... i've waited years to see that... i've clung on as long as I could... but it's not going to happen and the pricing changes have permanently changed the user base.

i'll repeat the same sentence that Kipling doesn't like me saying - you would need to have a near clearout of the management to see any sort of fundamental change in a better direction... but turkeys don't vote for Christmas, and so nothing is going to change... it's going to be the same people, repeating the same mistakes time after time.... thought the same when Matt posted his WebPros press release - he boasted that it was still going to be the same team.

18 hours ago, bear said:

Sounds more to me like he's decided they aren't deserving of his efforts any more with this latest stunt.

i'm bored - nothing's going to improve here... the core of the forums are leaving and i've got better things to do with my life... even if that's stacking shelves besides Chrisb2012. 😎

I could be sat here in 2023, posting another banal sidebar hook to some poor sap who just wants to modify a menu but doesn't feel it necessary to learn PHP to do it.... there has to be an aim - for me, that was always to make WHMCS better.... as a product, certainly as an experience for the end-user and if the company got fixed in the process, then that would have been a bonus.... but it's not the quaint British company it once was, it's a cash-grabbing exercise now and once a company goes down that road, it's a one-way trip.

18 hours ago, bear said:

To add, brian!, you've been a huge help to me, personally. Thank you. Don't know why you'd want to but if you want to stay in touch, just PM for my contact. I won't force that on you. 

that's very kind of you to say.... one day i'll get to 10 posts and be able to PM on WHT lol.

17 hours ago, chrisb2012 said:

Yes, I feel like I know brian! Such a weird concept for an Internet stranger!

oh dear! 😲

17 hours ago, chrisb2012 said:

However, I do feel he has more integrity than to continue helping whmcs as I don't think it was ever the intention!

well they can't buy me that's for sure.

you know, they've wanted me to work for them twice - first in June 2014 when I was "informally" asked about taking over from Infopro, and then two years later during the vacuum after Infopro was, well let's say removed.... my understanding is that only two people were going to be telephone interviewed by Matt, me and ChrisD... but due my sister having a bad period with her dementia at the time, I didn't bother.... so Chris won the one-horse race... though i've still got Matt's mobile number, so I can always call him to ask him how things are going lol.

sadly, the last five years have shown that after an initial enthusiastic start, Chris has proven to be out of his depth to run this place effectively (and I say that with no disrespect to him)... in all reality, Kipling runs this place... my impression from the outside is that Infopro didn't allow that to be the case, but Chris seemingly isn't as strong.... besides, once you've reached the stage of not bothering to approve now posts for weeks on end, then i'm not sure how much job satisfaction is occurring on his part.

how different things might have been.... these forums should always have been a vibrant alternative to support, and not some 2nd-rate sub-division of a badly run support department.... I warned about all this years ago - the chickens are all coming home to roost now.

6 hours ago, ManagedCloud-Hosting said:

WHMCS is just not going to do anything for anyone and it must have been a plan to create a community and addons/modules now when they have grown big they have new plans to grow even bigger and STOP Supporting the developers / small and medium hosts so that they look else where and WHMCS can milk the bigger clients while their absolutely unprofessional support team makes more money by requesting clients to flag their tickets for priority and keeps on charging clients exorbitantly. 

Infopro had (at least) two fundamental weaknesses - he didn't know a great deal about WHMCS (no shame in that, neither does ChrisD to a degree) and more importantly, he did have the tendency to try to provoke a fight with users just so they he could ban them... he tried it with me a couple of times, but I never bit... however, the one thing that I always felt was that he was in charge of the place - it wasn't Kipling... now maybe that was just a wrong perception on my part, but I don't think so.

the forums might just evolve to developers replying with quotes to solve questions... but I still think the place will close eventually, or at least significantly trim the number of sub-forums.

6 hours ago, ManagedCloud-Hosting said:

When you contact @brian! for a problem you are facing he thinks about it 360 degree and offers multiple ways to solve the issue, that means he thinks about the cause more than we understand and face by ourselves using  his expertise. His brilliant approach to resolve issues have helped everyone including me many times and I will always be thankful to him. 

thanks you for that... when I can, I try to give an ANSWER to a situation, not just a copy & paste reply as you might get elsewhere.

6 hours ago, ManagedCloud-Hosting said:

Anyone who does work whole heartedly would feel let down by such a CHEAP stunt and to me that's unacceptable

the direct effect of these changes to me are minimal... nobody needs to worry about my future!

however, what it does affect is WHMCS users in general and in turn, these forums... I have always been very protective of this place - the forums (let's cut out this "community" crap now) could have been something special... it's like seeing an old girlfriend who had the world at her feet, but she fell in with the wrong crowd, got abused and then neglected... it's reached the point where it's better to remember her as she was, and not how she's going to end up. ⚰️

if I took over these forums tomorrow, I couldn't save WHMCS from themselves - the problems are all with the product and company management.

Edited April 11, 2021 by brian!

[bear]

11 minutes ago, brian! said:

one day i'll get to 10 posts and be able to PM on WHT lol.

At the current rate, that may be a while. 😉 I'll keep watch. 

Quote

Infopro had (at least) two fundamental weaknesses - he didn't know a great deal about WHMCS (no shame in that, neither does ChrisD to a degree) and more importantly, he did have the tendency to try to provoke a fight with users just so they he could ban them... 

He once asked me to moderate something inappropriately on another community, and when I refused I was attacked, harshly. Later I had reported a post here, and got a snarky reply from him saying he didn't need my help moderating, so stop reporting...along with another snarky comment on my ability to moderate anything. Some day maybe I'll learn why he left, but I'm guessing attitude was involved.  

Quote

you can get a free license for being a GearHead

Even better I declined when I was asked then. No idea why I was even asked, but due to my having moderated here (volunteer, thank you) in the past, I was often accused of defending WHMCS because I was an employee. That's all I'd have needed was for a "free license" to be included. 

[brian!]

"snarky" was a very apt description - wish i'd thought of it.

[ManagedCloud-Hosting]

25 minutes ago, bear said:

He once asked me to moderate something inappropriately on another community, and when I refused I was attacked, harshly.

That's a SHAME for WHMCS Team...Few of them (There are exceptions) are Arrogant.  Being a No Nonsense man I learnt this with my past experiences.

 

37 minutes ago, bear said:

due to my having moderated here (volunteer, thank you) in the past,

Didn't knew that...

 

48 minutes ago, brian! said:

the direct effect of these changes to me are minimal... nobody needs to worry about my future!

We all know that @brian! it's about the WHMCS users  who will be at loss including me as your opinions and comments are worth reading and are full of knowledge.

I plan to STOP using WHMCS pretty soon. Hope I get a good alternative for 3 companies, one would be Invoice Ninja as there are only manual and custom invoices...

 

57 minutes ago, brian! said:

it's like seeing an old girlfriend who had the world at her feet, but she fell in with the wrong crowd, got abused and then neglected...

WHT is my favorite place...so many things to learn from knowledgeable people and receive guidance when required.  Still I really feel bad and Sad for this place because of the active community members many posted questions and few answered them voluntarily to resolve their issues...that's something nice to see in today's world that such people exists who can offer help when someone needed them.

 

WHMCS not only increased their pricing but also impacted the bonding we all shared here to their benefit under COVID-19 CIRCUMSTANCES, this wasn't fair by any means.

[UnwilfulExpenditure]

Hopefully see you on the cleaning aisle for a natter one day! @brian!

[brian!]

18 hours ago, ManagedCloud-Hosting said:

We all know that @brian! it's about the WHMCS users  who will be at loss including me as your opinions and comments are worth reading and are full of knowledge.

i'll only be an email away.... sadly, my WHMCS knowledge will not die when I finally logoff from here, so my brain can still be plundered for working solutions until we all safely reaches the shoreline.

18 hours ago, ManagedCloud-Hosting said:

one would be Invoice Ninja as there are only manual and custom invoices...

yep that's why I was playing with it - going forward, I don't need a client area, cart or automation... I could have carried on using WHMCS for billing, but there's no need to if I don't require the rest of the features.

17 hours ago, chrisb2012 said:

Hopefully see you on the cleaning aisle for a natter one day!

they'll keep us separated on different shifts. 🧹

[webhosterde]

whmcs has never been suitable for legal use - at least here in Germany. We have programmed many things to make the software work without being warned right away. I can understand that you want to earn more than a few peanuts for a few update downloads from customers who bought the software, but then to go from a few Euros per year to a 4 digit amount is absolutely outrageous. And the whole thing with a simple email-announcement without the possibility to book an extension.

For the fact that the software is still so immature and with each update many things are overwritten that you have changed yourself, it makes no sense in the long run to continue to support something like this.

Too bad, but we will use something else this year, which at least meets the data protection criteria and also meets tax requirements.

 

[Nick H]

The new prices are not unreasonable by any means. Those complaining need to weigh the value WHMCS provides to their business against the cost. If you have 900 active paying clients, $44.95/month should be a drop in the hat compared to the value it provides your business. If you have 900 active clients and can't afford that price, you should probably rethink your business model.

If you're frugal and want to save money, by all means, go to ClientExec or Blesta or any of the other alternatives that are YEARS behind WHMCS in features and support.

No one is ever going to be happy about paying more money, but WHMCS is a business. Again, you have the evaluate whether the alternatives, which severely lack in features compared to WHMCS, are worth saving a few bucks.

[bear]

20 hours ago, Nick H said:

If you have 900 active clients and can't afford that price, you should probably rethink your business model.

That's not the point. The entire "pay per client" model (with subsequent increases) is mainly what's abhorrent here (not to mention how it was announced). 

I'm losing a few owned licenses in exchange for paying more for a leased version (should I stay) that changes in price according to my success, that they monitor rather closely. There has never to my knowledge been a public disclosure of exactly what metrics are actually being sent, so for all we know they could be gathering full client details for eventual soliciting with one of their hosting company partners, some day may start sending notices to clients under suspended licenses about a "better host that doesn't have license issues", or who knows what. This isn't even mentioning the connection to cPanel and the interesting data that could be correlated between WHMCS clients and the things they host and do with Cpanel accounts and so on. Do remember, WHMCS has the ability to log you into Cpanel servers and individual accounts through that interface.
All sorts of mischief possible, if you're willing to do whatever you feel like with apparent impunity.

Lately the licensing server has been having issues verifying validity "if you don't log in every 10 days". I log in daily, and  mine failed the check until I forced a reissue. Now imagine you don't remember to check that very public license checker to know yours failed, and failing that check now blocks access to the admin of your installation, since this is in fact a lease that disables non-payers (actual or perceived).
See any issues there with the new licensing other than the "you can afford it" price?

[ManagedCloud-Hosting]

2 hours ago, bear said:

There has never to my knowledge been a public disclosure of exactly what metrics are actually being sent, so for all we know they could be gathering full client details for eventual soliciting with one of their hosting company partners, some day may start sending notices to clients under suspended licenses about a "better host that doesn't have license issues", or who knows what. This isn't even mentioning the connection to cPanel and the interesting data that could be correlated between WHMCS clients and the things they host and do with Cpanel accounts and so on. Do remember, WHMCS has the ability to log you into Cpanel servers and individual accounts through that interface.
All sorts of mischief possible, if you're willing to do whatever you feel like with apparent impunity.

Yes the information they gather is not known and it's surely a risk factor for everyone...

[Nick H]

6 hours ago, bear said:

There has never to my knowledge been a public disclosure of exactly what metrics are actually being sent

It's in the EULA: 1.18 “WHMCS Anonymous Usage Data” means all data collected by WHMCS in connection with the use of the Software by You or any Third Party Users, including (a) the licensed or unlicensed status of the Software; (b) the source from which the license for the Software was obtained; and (c) information about the hardware upon which the Software is installed including (i) the public IP address, (ii) the operating system, (iii) web server version, (iv) the use of any virtualization technologies on such server, and (v) data utilized to prevent and combat various server attacks by hackers or their hardware, including but not limited to assaults such as spam attacks, brute force attacks, dictionary attacks, phishing, pharming, and the like. Additionally, “WHMCS Anonymous Usage Data” may also include information collected by WHMCS from time to time concerning which features of the Software are most often used in order to improve and make adjustments to the Software, including, but not limited to the number of active modules, PHP version, mySQL version, installed PHP extensions, installed add-on modules, template utilization, and the number of active administrators, domains, servers, and active clients

 

I can't say I disagree with you on their policy regarding Owned Licenses. It does seem a little underhanded, and hopefully they do reconsider it. Even if they raised the price of the Support and Updates rather than forcing you on to a new license entirely.

[bear]

On 4/25/2021 at 1:34 PM, Nick H said:

the number of active administrators

The next thing to be charged extra for....

[niels]

With an intercepting SSL proxy you can see what they send exactly. I'm not copy&pasting it here as that may violate some rules, but it's easy to find out if you really want to know.

[Jade D]

3 minutes ago, niels said:

With an intercepting SSL proxy you can see what they send exactly. I'm not copy&pasting it here as that may violate some rules, but it's easy to find out if you really want to know.

I say post it.

 

WHMCS have already broken the rules (You know those gentlemen rules that you have when you engage in business)

[Jade D]

7 hours ago, bear said:

The next thing to be charged extra for....

Please dont give them ideas...

[Cowboy]

I have been using WHMCS since 2008 and I have to say that even while these billing changes don't hurt me by much (still less than 250 customers) I can see where this is all leading and I don't like it at all. 

In my opinion big tech is trying to dismantle the free and open internet in an insidious manner by increasing the barriers to entry for website entrepreneurs. First it's the software used on servers (cPanel licenses now count the number of accounts), then it's the software used to manage customers. The last pillar to fall will be the death of all open source software because there will be nowhere for people to host their websites other than on corporate owned spaces where they call the shots and set the bills. 

What I also found very interesting too recently, is that Invision Community Software (the same people who offer this community's platform) are stopping the module that allows one to sell and manage web hosting with their next release. It worked very well and I had tested it but because I have been using WHMCS for so long it didn't make sense to migrate my clients to there.  Now I can't anyway. 

I'll continue along for now, but management here should know that their customers are watching their moves closely and as soon as there is a feasible alternative (viva competition!) they will feel their departure powerfully.  Thank goodness I didn't expend too much effort on any of the MarketPlace offerings, otherwise I'd truly be stuck here. 

[ljprevo]

On 4/7/2021 at 6:32 AM, WHMCS John said:

Hi all,

Thank you for your continuing discussion of our recent announcement.

We are reading all your comments and feedback here, and our Sales team are available to answer any questions you may have via https://www.whmcs.com/contact

With regards to security updates; our policy on this remains unchanged by yesterday's announcement. To summarise;

Security related updates for the minor version you last had access to, are still available free of charge. These do not require an active Support and Updates subscription and are available to download, install and run even should your Support and Updates subscription have lapsed.

Well obviously you didn't take the feedback strong enough, because you have not changed anything.  I have less than 10 clients that I host sites for and have used your product for other things.  I am just a small guy here. This weekend I had to move to a new server and I went to your site to buy a year of support, thought it would be $150, which I would have easily paid for, compared to $45 in the past, but holy hell.  My little business breaks even, maybe a little change afterward.  I only deal with niche sites/businesses etc.  Now I can't get your "old software" to work on the new server.   I am beyond pissed at this and now looking at buying ClientExec and having to move everything over there.  I would have gladly paid to upgrade my software, but this monthly fee is highway robbery as not every "host" has a ton of clients.

I know this post is old, but I miss all this stuff last April.  What a way to screw us original guys.

[Bigol'tastynuggets]

9 hours ago, ljprevo said:

Well obviously you didn't take the feedback strong enough, because you have not changed anything.  I have less than 10 clients that I host sites for and have used your product for other things.  I am just a small guy here. This weekend I had to move to a new server and I went to your site to buy a year of support, thought it would be $150, which I would have easily paid for, compared to $45 in the past, but holy hell.  My little business breaks even, maybe a little change afterward.  I only deal with niche sites/businesses etc.  Now I can't get your "old software" to work on the new server.   I am beyond pissed at this and now looking at buying ClientExec and having to move everything over there.  I would have gladly paid to upgrade my software, but this monthly fee is highway robbery as not every "host" has a ton of clients.

I know this post is old, but I miss all this stuff last April.  What a way to screw us original guys.

Yes, it's very sad! At least we got loads of new updates containing really useful features! 

Oh, wait.... no sorry they let us use more affiliate products 🤣