Feature Suggestions

[agentblack]

So you ask users to give you suggestions to enhance the software and after a quick browse through the section, one thing is very apparent. Almost everything gets marked as "under consideration" and very little is actually built into the software. I get that some features take time to enable in the software, but there are a good dozen plus feature enhancements that have been pending for well over a year, one great one that has been "declined" that was open 4 years ago but is highly sought after by users.

 

What's the point of asking us for our feedback if you're not going to do anything about it? Is it so hard to give us a realistic expectation on if/when an enhancement is coming? This is one of the main reasons we left WHMCS several years ago, is the frustration that WHMCS doesn't want to innovate the product and add helpful enhancements, rather they just want to keep the "status quo". The status quo doesn't work in this day and age anymore. You have direct access to the world largest control panel vendor and their teams of staff, and yet, not much has been done to enhance the product besides a few integrations with cPanel.

 

Other than an outstanding issue we have with the software that we have just chalked up to defective code and incompatibility with php7, WHMCS has improved since we were a customer last time, but there's not been much that is keeping us excited about the software now a days.

 

Come on WHMCS, don't ask for our feedback to help you improve your product then do nothing with the requests, in some cases for over four years.

[WHMCS John]

Hi agentblack,

Thanks for taking the time to provide your feedback.

 

A lot of factors are involved in deciding what we work on. With finite resources, only 24 hours in a day and a big product roadmap, we have to decide what to prioritise based on a combination of both the value it delivers and the number of users it benefits. Whilst this does mean that not every feature request can be implemented, every approved idea is reviewed by our senior team, so it will be seen be the appropriate people.

 

We pride ourselves in listening to customers when it comes to the features we add to the product, and the Feature Request site really plays an important part in determining this. To that end, the majority of the new features we have added in recent years are a direct result of the most popular feature requests. Here are just some examples:

 

* https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/automatic-update-utility

* https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/cpanel-integration

* https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/more-beautifull-order-pages

* https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/responsive-template

* https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/domain-name-transfer-management-request

* https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/hide-items-from-client-view

* https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/stripe-payment-gateway-module

* https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/better-support-for-multilanguage

* https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/whois-domain-availability-check-through-domain-registar

* https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/enom-premium-domain-support

 

We aim to make four feature releases per year and typically include two or three major features in each release. You can read more about how our releases work in this blog post: http://blog.whmcs.com/?t=106987

I trust that provides some insight into how we prioritise and action customer feedback and how the feature request site helps us do this.

[agentblack]

John,

 

I appreciate the answer but if you truly pride yourself on listening to the customers, then why is almost every feature request set to under consideration, with a vast majority of them many years old? I get you have limited resources but seriously, we can't get an update from the dev team with a "hey, we are still looking at this!" or something to let us know it's actually being considered? I submitted a comment the other day and it was immediately set to under consideration with no involvement from you for a while, at which it was deleted and rerouted to a topic already opened.

 

Four years John. I shouldn't have to pay a dev 400$ to fix the software because it's missing a basic component.

[wulfric]

Be careful with what you say @agentblack or you risk being banned. Honesty is not always best policy. Still, you shouldn't overlook the many great features that have been integrated into WHMCS. There is lot's of great things that I'm grateful for.

[agentblack]

I agree, there are many enhancements, but there's also a lot the software is missing to make it stellar.

[wulfric]

I get it and totally agree. I'm a big fan of Box Billing. If you hired a group of programmers or invested 1,000 worth of programming labor that software would certainly put an even bigger dent into WHMCS marketshare. Have you checked out alternatives to WHMCS? I personally am a big fan of WHMCS but I reckon in about 3 to 4 years it'll have MUCH more competition.

[agentblack]

We originally were a WHMCS customer, left because of stagnant development and ongoing issues with PDF invoice generation. We went to ClientExec and enjoyed the product but we outgrew it and came back a few years ago to WHMCS. We have been looking at Blesta as an alternative but we would likely have to give up a few of the integrations we already have. We are not to the point we need Ubersmith yet, but we have used them in the past with success. We actually left Ubersmith and came to WHMCS.

[WHMCS John]

Hi,

Allow me to explain a little more about the feature request workflow.

 

Once a feature request is submitted it enters the moderation queue, where a member of the development or management team reviews them. During the review process, we check that the title, category and description provide a suitable amount of information. If there is an existing request for the same or very similar idea, the new suggestion will also be declined.

 

Once approved, an idea enters "Under Consideration" stage. This is the default stage for all approved suggestions. This is the main stage for you to vote and comment on a suggestion; to demonstrate these is desire for such a feature amongst a wide section of our user-base and discuss how such a feature might operate.

 

The workflow is then Investigating > Planned > In Progress > Completed.

 

If an suggestion has no activity for a significant period of time, it is then archived.

 

Is there a particular suggestion to which you are alluding?

[brian!]

Be careful with what you say @agentblack or you risk being banned. Honesty is not always best policy. Still, you shouldn't overlook the many great features that have been integrated into WHMCS. There is lot's of great things that I'm grateful for.

i'm assuming that's the best of the best John could come up with (and not a random sample)... yet there isn't one feature there that took less than 2 years to complete from the first suggestion... ridiculous - reinforces my belief in everything that is wrong with the feature requests system as it is currently.

[agentblack]

John, not sure why your reply isn't showing up for me, however in regards to your question about what features have been pending for years, here is a small sampling:

 

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/support-ticket-custom-field-type-for-encrypted-data 7 up votes and this had to be done by a third party vendor to make available. Which means now we would have to pay two folks instead of having it as a core piece of the software.

 

Our pain point: https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/configurable-options-duplicate-copy 4 years. 10 up votes. 400$ out of pocket to enable this functionality plus ongoing upgrade costs. Edit: This one seems to be able to be knocked out in just a matter of days, maybe a month at most.

 

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/i-want-to-be-able-to-edit-my-whmcs-support-ticket-priorities 4 years. 34 up votes. While not a priority for us, this would certainly become helpful later for us.

 

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/promotions-apply-only-to-configurable-options-upgraded-hard-drives-memory-etc 4 years. 15 up votes. This is a minor pain point for us as we have found a work around, although annoying.

 

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/multi-company-support 4 years 177 up votes. How many up votes before serious consideration is given?

 

These are just some examples of things that have been suggested and on the outward appearance, no consideration given.

Edited September 27, 2017 by agentblack

[malfunction]

Some years ago, when the number of outstanding suggestions was around 2,000 and not the 3,308 it stands at today, I compiled some feature progress statistics over time. I put a summary in my forum signature, which was of course deleted pretty sharpish by WHMCS as they don't invite even polite criticism. I don't recall the details, but the results were dismal with only a tiny percentage of ideas ever being implemented.

 

I see the feature request system as an embarrassment that they likely wish they had never started, that has been co-opted by the staff as a convenient way to get rid of people bugging them with problems. Trouble with WHMCS? Need something that isn't currently supported? Not working the way you would like? Good idea you found in another product? File a feature request. They know there's a less than 1% chance it would ever be implemented in the next hundred years given the glacial pace of development, but it gets you off their back. That's all it's for now.

[brian!]

I see the feature request system as an embarrassment that they likely wish they had never started, that has been co-opted by the staff as a convenient way to get rid of people bugging them with problems. Trouble with WHMCS? Need something that isn't currently supported? Not working the way you would like? Good idea you found in another product? File a feature request. They know there's a less than 1% chance it would ever be implemented in the next hundred years given the glacial pace of development, but it gets you off their back. That's all it's for now.

I cannot tell you how much I agree with that.... 1000% correct... i'll plump up a cushion and wait for John to defend the feature requests system - should be good for a laugh.

[bear]

I stopped participating in those, for much the same reasons. Things we could really use get ignored, yet things like Weebly get implemented. "Dumping ground" is an apt description.

 

Pass me a cushion.

[yggdrasil]

I'm not a software developer, but I have used a lot of software, and yes, I can code some stuff and have done so in the past. In my experience, even the most simple dummy feature, suddenly turns very complicated because you need to take into account all types of users actions and scenarios. If you have a lot of other features in any software, even the smallest things can break stuff or just don’t play nice with the rest.

 

Hence you have so many garbage WHMCS modules where you can see the developers never actually used their own modules on real sites or even bothered to test them for a few minutes. Examples are of hitting a submit button with a blank form (no errors or messages to the users) or enabling a feature that forces you to stop using something else. Even modules from companies you think are good at coding. For example, the Modules Garden Ticket credit modules completely disabled all user errors on the ticket if a field was incorrect or hardcoded language stuff to templates or even encoded Javascript files with Ioncube. Ouchhh....Having spelling mistakes in a module is one thing, having some basic GUI messages missing or not parsing user input can even put your whole WHMCS at risk of being compromised.

 

This may sound like something small but details are important. And this is why I decided to go with WHMCS. It doesn’t do everything out of the box (and I don't want it too) but it does most of the things you expect.

 

 

The features works (unless there is a reported bug) and they all play nicely together. I feel comfortable that if I enabled a setting in WHMCS, it would work, and it will do so with all the rest of the enabled features. And to be honest, that is what I want. I want fewer features but a stable software vs. bloating it with tons of useless garbage that not everyone will use. Some things should be included and some not. People don’t seem to understand this because they think WHMCS has to build all the features they require to run their business or company.

 

 

That is not how it works with software. WHMCS has hooks, API, and extensions which allows you to customize things to fit your services/business. To be honest, once you start to explore this, there is not allot you can't-do. With a bit of creativity, most small things can be accomplished. I even managed to do complicated stuff like metered billing before. If you are not a developer, you are going to hit with this problem with any software, so whatever you want or require, it's better just to pay a developer than wait WHMCS to release a future.

 

 

Some things are necessary and should be included, and they do from my experience. For example, verifying an email which WHMCS didn’t do for a lot of time. Something this basic should be included, and it was suggested, and they added it. But when I start to read the feature requests, I'm surprised on how much garbage some people demand. And the rest, they don’t realize there is a module for that, or it can be done with a simple code change. I don't want people to be using modules for every small primary stuff. But some things are so complex in the feature request system, that would require a whole new separated software just to accomplish.

 

I'm curious to see what features you say they declined and should be an enhancement. If they reject a feature, it is most likely that it fits some of these scenarios:

 

1. Not a lot of requests by users

 

2. It can be already done with hooks, API or modules

 

3. Does not benefit the rest of the customers based and just a particular WHMCS group/market

 

4. Too complex or will make WHMCS bloated

 

You have to consider that a lot of software suffers from trying to do all things that shine under the sun and so become complex buggy, insecure and eventually a monster. This is why WHMCS is probably careful just like cPanel when it comes to adding new stuff. Better slow and safe. More than ever if a business relies on them.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I stopped participating in those, for much the same reasons. Things we could really use get ignored, yet things like Weebly get implemented. "Dumping ground" is an apt description.

 

Pass me a cushion.

 

I hate the current feature request system. It would be much better here integrated into the community forums (with the upcoming forum change). It could have upvotes/downvotes and let everyone share their opinion and even code examples or potential usage scenarios.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Some years ago, when the number of outstanding suggestions was around 2,000 and not the 3,308 it stands at today, I compiled some feature progress statistics over time. I put a summary in my forum signature, which was of course deleted pretty sharpish by WHMCS as they don't invite even polite criticism. I don't recall the details, but the results were dismal with only a tiny percentage of ideas ever being implemented.

 

I see the feature request system as an embarrassment that they likely wish they had never started, that has been co-opted by the staff as a convenient way to get rid of people bugging them with problems. Trouble with WHMCS? Need something that isn't currently supported? Not working the way you would like? Good idea you found in another product? File a feature request. They know there's a less than 1% chance it would ever be implemented in the next hundred years given the glacial pace of development, but it gets you off their back. That's all it's for now.

 

You are correct. I had the staff telling me to publish a feature request for some things that were actual bugs. But that is not to blame on the developers but rather the technical support staff that seems to want to get rid of people instead of actually researching if it's a real problem. WHMCS still suffers like other smaller software companies from the is it a bug or a feature problem.

[yggdrasil]

John, not sure why your reply isn't showing up for me, however in regards to your question about what features have been pending for years, here is a small sampling:

 

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/support-ticket-custom-field-type-for-encrypted-data 7 up votes and this had to be done by a third party vendor to make available. Which means now we would have to pay two folks instead of having it as a core piece of the software.

 

Our pain point: https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/configurable-options-duplicate-copy 4 years. 10 up votes. 400$ out of pocket to enable this functionality plus ongoing upgrade costs. Edit: This one seems to be able to be knocked out in just a matter of days, maybe a month at most.

 

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/i-want-to-be-able-to-edit-my-whmcs-support-ticket-priorities 4 years. 34 up votes. While not a priority for us, this would certainly become helpful later for us.

 

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/promotions-apply-only-to-configurable-options-upgraded-hard-drives-memory-etc 4 years. 15 up votes. This is a minor pain point for us as we have found a work around, although annoying.

 

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/multi-company-support 4 years 177 up votes. How many ersonup votesP before serious consideration is given?

 

These are just some examples of things that have been suggested and on the outward appearance, no consideration given.

 

I will play the devil's advocate here.

 

1. Support Ticket Custom Field Type for Encrypted Data

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/support-ticket-custom-field-type-for-encrypted-data

 

 

Personally, I do think this should be included with WHMCS. Why? Because it makes sense. It's a security-enhanced, and it is actually simple to do and will benefit a lot of people as most use tickets for sensitive stuff as well. But this should not be limited to tickets only. Custom fields should have an option everywhere to choose an encrypted field.

 

 

Now. There are modules for this and to be honest. I'm not even a developer, and I could code this in half a day or less. It is straightforward with a few simple lines to the ticket template system, or hooks and then just adding the correct table to the database. So if this is a huge requirement, you could just buy a module or do it on your own.

 

 

2. Configurable options Duplicate-Copy

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/configurable-options-duplicate-copy

 

 

 

Common...How lazy can someone be? When you add a new server or product, it will take time to set up everything. There is no way around when adding things to a database. It will take a few more minutes with a simple copy and paste, having several browsers open or tabs and problem solved. It is not like you are changing a product or server every day.

 

 

3. I want to be able to edit my WHMCS Support Ticket Priorities.

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/i-want-to-be-able-to-edit-my-whmcs-support-ticket-priorities

 

 

 

Well, you have a point here. I don't know why this was declined. Every ticket & support software I know, lets you add or edit your own priorities. I was actually impressed this was not an option with WHMCS when I first purchased the software.

 

 

4. Promotions apply only to configurable options (upgraded hard drives, memory, etc)

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/promotions-apply-only-to-configurable-options-upgraded-hard-drives-memory-etc

 

 

 

Not sure about this one. Maybe. But maybe there are workarounds like using the bundle feature and linking directly to the promotion that has the second hardrive and discount included in the url. Basically he asks for coupons to be directly related to configurable option. This may be great but does sound a bit more complicated to get right without breaking other stuff.

 

 

5. Multi-company support

https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/multi-company-support

 

 

 

This can actually be done. I suspect WHMCS wants people to buy 2 installations here, but the person could have a point when it comes to billing. If you are a company with other divisions and brands, you can't have separated WHMCS's/Databases because that means different invoices numbers, billing systems, accounting, etc. It would be wrong as its still one legal entity, and all billing/invoices should be done under one single centralized database for legal and accounting purposes.

 

 

To be fair, this is rather very complex to get right. Most software can't-do this. WHMCS can partially, by using completely different themes and templates maybe this can be done, or connecting to the same database from 2 different installations? I don't know, but if all he wants is a different front face brand, it can be done. If he wants an entirely different site where there is no reference to the other brand, that is very hard to do as it involves having everything except some things separated. At that point maybe you are better with a second installation altogether if you are keeping the brands/divisions that separated and isolated.

 

 

The persons mention he doesn't want to run two hosting and 2 SSL, so I suspect he wants this to save money. That will be the least of your costs if you are actually doing this right. Assuming that, I think he only wants different sites/looks, and that can be done actually with API, hooks and even themes. You could even create a whole different site HTML/PHP that just connects to WHMCS with the API if you want. There are alot of ways to do this, even on the server side that detects the URL and changes the theme on the fly. The fact this is possible is that Modules Garden created a module that somehow does this:

https://www.modulesgarden.com/products/whmcs/multibrand

[brian!]

The features works (unless there is a reported bug) and they all play nicely together. I feel comfortable that if I enabled a setting in WHMCS, it would work, and it will do so with all the rest of the enabled features. And to be honest, that is what I want. I want fewer features but a stable software vs. bloating it with tons of useless garbage that not everyone will use. Some things should be included and some not. People don’t seem to understand this because they think WHMCS has to build all the features they require to run their business or company.

which perhaps is partially fuelled by WHMCS telling their users to submit feature requests... and thus giving false hope that what they want might one day be implemented in the core product.

 

That is not how it works with software. WHMCS has hooks, API, and extensions which allows you to customize things to fit your services/business. To be honest, once you start to explore this, there is not allot you can't-do. With a bit of creativity, most small things can be accomplished. I even managed to do complicated stuff like metered billing before. If you are not a developer, you are going to hit with this problem with any software, so whatever you want or require, it's better just to pay a developer than wait WHMCS to release a future.

BOOM! - that's just what i'm saying.... the features request system is a Santa's wishlist of ideas... it's ok for "wouldn't it be good if WHMCS could do this one day..." where you're in no rush, but the minute you need a feature adding now, or in the near future, then it's useless - now new users won't know that, they'll think it's fit for purpose and that by adding a request it has a realistic chance of being implemented... the rest of us know the reality is different - even if it is added, that day will be years away.

 

Some things are necessary and should be included, and they do from my experience. For example, verifying an email which WHMCS didn’t do for a lot of time. Something this basic should be included, and it was suggested, and they added it.

3 years later - https://requests.whmcs.com/topic/email-verification-before-completing-the-checkout

 

even a broken clock is right twice a day... at some points, WHMCS will add features that have also been previously requested... whether that's cause & effect, or just a happy coincidence, i'll leave it to others to decide.

 

But when I start to read the feature requests, I'm surprised on how much garbage some people demand. And the rest, they don’t realize there is a module for that, or it can be done with a simple code change. I don't want people to be using modules for every small primary stuff. But some things are so complex in the feature request system, that would require a whole new separated software just to accomplish.

I wouldn't argue with that... I can well remember years ago visiting the requests site and seeing a load of requests that if they'd only posted that problem in the forum, I could have pointed them towards a solution - whether that's a template tweak, a quick hook or direct them to a product in Marketplace (or the App Store as it would have been then).

 

I'm curious to see what features you say they declined and should be an enhancement. If they reject a feature, it is most likely that it fits some of these scenarios:

1. Not a lot of requests by users

which takes us back to the FR system not being fit for purpose... manys the time i've been told by users that they've started/voted a feature request... yet you try to find it, and it's a hopeless task - you end up asking them for the URL... which is ridiculous - I suspect that's one of the reasons you end up with similar requests all only getting a handful of votes.

 

2. It can be already done with hooks, API or modules

at which point someone from WHMCS should reply and tell them that... not leave it for years "Under Consideration".

 

3. Does not benefit the rest of the customers based and just a particular WHMCS group/market

the one that always sticks in my memory is the US Counties Tax request... that got declined.

 

4. Too complex or will make WHMCS bloated

Brian chokes on his cup of tea - if you're worried about WHMCS getting bloated, then that train has already left the station!

 

compare the extracted files sizes of various releases over the last 3 years...

 

you can clearly see how v6 was almost 3x the size of v5.3; v7 was almost 4x the size of v5.3 and the v7.3b is closer to 5x the size... even 7.3b is 30% bigger than v7.0 and there's only been a year between those releases!

 

v5.3.9 has 2,068 files; v6 has 3,594; v7 has 5,659 and the latest beta has 7,348 files.

 

You have to consider that a lot of software suffers from trying to do all things that shine under the sun and so become complex buggy, insecure and eventually a monster.

see above - though I don't consider that the WHMCS software is trying to do everything under the sun... it's basically just doing what it did 3 years ago... except it's increasingly bloated.

 

This is why WHMCS is probably careful just like cPanel when it comes to adding new stuff. Better slow and safe. More than ever if a business relies on them.

yeah it's not like they launched MarketConnect before it was ready; or why virtually every major release needs a maintenance release within days (sometimes hours) - if that's your definition of slow and safe, i'm not going sailing with you!

 

I hate the current feature request system. It would be much better here integrated into the community forums (with the upcoming forum change). It could have upvotes/downvotes and let everyone share their opinion and even code examples or potential usage scenarios.

as it once was... I miss the days of having the bug reports in the forum too... would also be interesting to see the result if the sale of existing licenses were allowed here - i'm curious to see how many people are leaving.

 

You are correct. I had the staff telling me to publish a feature request for some things that were actual bugs. But that is not to blame on the developers but rather the technical support staff that seems to want to get rid of people instead of actually researching if it's a real problem.

surely if there is anyone to blame for bugs, by definition it has to be the developers - it's their coding!

 

my sympathy goes to the support staff on this - they're put in that position because the bugs aren't spotted before release - either by the developers or the *giggles* quality assurance team... and even once spotted, may not get resolved for months until the next maintenance release (or the one after, or the etc etc)... not great if your business relies on the software to work.

[bear]

would also be interesting to see the result if the sale of existing licenses were allowed here - i'm curious to see how many people are leaving.

A major forum I'm part of allows sales of these, and the number hasn't increased, it's actually decreased and the price has gone up. I'd guess folks who aren't happy currently (and moving off) might just be hanging on to the owned ones "just in case" since it's hard to find them now. If I were to move off (and with the current direction it's a bit more likely than before), that would likely be my plan also.

[brian!]

A major forum I'm part of allows sales of these, and the number hasn't increased, it's actually decreased and the price has gone up. I'd guess folks who aren't happy currently (and moving off) might just be hanging on to the owned ones "just in case" since it's hard to find them now. If I were to move off (and with the current direction it's a bit more likely than before), that would likely be my plan also.

I suspect I know which forum you're talking about.

 

but I think when the times comes, i'd go the opposite way, get rid and not return... though hopefully it won't come to that.

[yggdrasil]

18 hours ago, brian! said:

I suspect I know which forum you're talking about.

 

but I think when the times comes, i'd go the opposite way, get rid and not return... though hopefully it won't come to that.

We all know but I guess most don't hang there anymore. It's a dying community based on the quality of the posts and users.

About the bloated size you mentioned:

The size is not really bigger because of features or code they added, but because they moved to Laravel, Bootstrap, Jquery and many other things which require a lot of dependencies now. The size increase comes from the vendors library which includes all the third party code.

[ptmzr]

On 9/27/2017 at 11:33 PM, brian! said:

there isn't one feature there that took less than 2 years to complete from the first suggestion... ridiculous - reinforces my belief in everything that is wrong with the feature requests system as it is currently

That (see quote above) is definitely a key indicator, in this case, for what seems to be significantly untimely decision/action.

We are very interested in as fast development as good quality allows (so sometimes slow is ok).

We are sure WHMCS would find at least a hundred (beta) testers if it was only about quickly finding out if new developments are buggy, so it cannot be that.

Considering that we know first hand that there are many developers who release bug fixes daily/weekly and new features once a month or even more oft, it is advisable to take this seriously - perhaps prioritised e.g. like this: security #1 (stop almost all other ops and focus on that), bugs #2 (focus on that except #1), new features #3 (focus on that except #1 or #2).

WHMCS customers/users it seems cannot even help themselves and fix, since it is ion-cubed, and hence customers/users are somewhat at the mercy of WHMCS, which does not make it a dictatorship, but the many options and co-developmental ways of this day and age are pervasive.

What do you think, is there a better way?

[WHMCS Nate]

As I read the criticism here, it's not as much a criticism of the feature request system as it is criticism of the pace of feature development and the prioritization choices we have made in implementing new functionality. All three topics are valid things to provide feedback about; but when one sets about trying to solve them, being clear about which topic is problematic is critical to actually improving things.

The feedback Ive gotten from customers is that they want major new features, and quality of life refinements, and bug fixes, and on-going maintenance, and back porting fixes, and documentation, and engagement. Implementing feature requests and new ideas we have is balanced with these other priorities. If there are areas you feel like we need are imbalanced, that is valuable feedback. My experience has been that majority of our customers want an 'all of the above' approach, not just one or two elements.

I think that seeing a lot of feature requests being generated is a sign that WHMCS is a useful and important product. When you have a tool that solves some problem for you, it gives you space and time to notice new problems that the tool might be able to help you with. This happens to all software programs of a minimum level of complexity. Jamie Zawinski summed up this trend with his maxim: "Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones that can." The number of feature requests coming in reflects the many different and innovative ways people are using WHMCS, the dynamic nature of this industry, and how central WHMCS is to our customers business.

The idea that if WHMCS were working as fast as it should, the number of open feature requests would go down, does not match my experience of how software evolves - for any product Ive ever worked on. Software where the number feature requests go down over time is typically software that is dead or abandoned.

Ultimately our company leadership has to take all of the information they can gather and make choices. Feedback from the community is an important part of the information they consider. That feedback comes in many different ways. The feature request system is a medium we have found helpful. If your feedback is "we want more new features", we hear that. If the feedback is: "these four features requests are really important to me and here is why" - that is also helpful. If you can order them by priority - even better.

If you have suggestions about how we could improve the communication through the feature request system, that is also something we want to know. Hopefully Johns earlier clarification of what Under Consideration means and the workflow for requests will help set expectations better. I think Brian's last reply pointed to a major difference between how the feature request system works in practice and how some customers expect it to work here:

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BOOM! - that's just what i'm saying.... the features request system is a Santa's wishlist of ideas... it's ok for "wouldn't it be good if WHMCS could do this one day..." where you're in no rush, but the minute you need a feature adding now, or in the near future, then it's useless - now new users won't know that, they'll think it's fit for purpose and that by adding a request it has a realistic chance of being implemented... the rest of us know the reality is different - even if it is added, that day will be years away.

I also appreciate the feedback on the difficulty in finding specific ideas that has come up. Sorting through 1000+ items is not a simple problem. Feedback on how we can make that easier would be great. 

Im not sure this is a defence of the feature request system, but I hope that it does work as a defence of interaction and communication. As an employee, I am most successful when I deliver high quality software that adds value for my customers. WHMCS as an organization is best off if we provide the tools our customers need. Our customers are better off when WHMCS solves problems. The most effective way to get there is collaboratively.

[ptmzr]

On 9/29/2017 at 10:05 AM, yggdrasil said:

curious to see what features you say they declined and should be an enhancement. If they reject a feature, it is most likely that it fits some of these scenarios:

 

1. Not a lot of requests by users

 

2. It can be already done with hooks, API or modules

 

3. Does not benefit the rest of the customers based and just a particular WHMCS group/market

 

4. Too complex or will make WHMCS bloated

It would be good if WHMCS could use something like the above to react to feature requests.

 

On 9/29/2017 at 10:05 AM, yggdrasil said:

You have to consider that a lot of software suffers from trying to do all things that shine under the sun and so become complex buggy, insecure and eventually a monster. This is why WHMCS is probably careful just like cPanel when it comes to adding new stuff. Better slow and safe. More than ever if a business relies on them.

totally agree!

 

On 9/29/2017 at 10:05 AM, yggdrasil said:

would be much better here integrated into the community forums (with the upcoming forum change). It could have upvotes/downvotes and let everyone share their opinion and even code examples or potential usage scenarios.

thumbs of for that suggestion

(who want to go to a separate site for each single action if it is linked to the same thing anyway)

 

On 9/29/2017 at 2:19 PM, brian! said:

new users won't know that, they'll think it's fit for purpose and that by adding a request it has a realistic chance of being implemented... the rest of us know the reality is different - even if it is added, that day will be years away

that's so true!

 

On 9/29/2017 at 2:19 PM, brian! said:

except it's increasingly bloated

...the use of 'libraries' makes 'modern' programmers into puzzlers, and hence the occasional real development become a safari...and once you don't know anymore what each part/line does, it takes so much longer to truly develop new features...

 

23 hours ago, bear said:

A major forum I'm part of allows sales of these, and the number hasn't increased, it's actually decreased and the price has gone up.

True...but it is worth considering the monthly fees now...and it is solid software for the most part, and with the largest footprint in its space.

Is it not alloWed to say Here which forum iT is?

5 hours ago, yggdrasil said:

It's a dying community based on the quality of the posts and users.

What's missing?

[brian!]

7 hours ago, yggdrasil said:

The size is not really bigger because of features or code they added, but because they moved to Laravel, Bootstrap, Jquery and many other things which require a lot of dependencies now. The size increase comes from the vendors library which includes all the third party code.

by definition, surely if you're using x times more files, to do a similar thing, then that's bloated... v5 and v7.3 are not the same, but they're not so vastly different that it needs to be 24MB vs 116MB !!

it's also going to increase the time/effort of maintaining and updating it.

Edited September 30, 2017 by brian!

[bear]

1 hour ago, ptmzr said:

Is it not alloWed to say Here which forum iT is?

Not an issue or forbidden, it's just not important. 

[brian!]

1 hour ago, WHMCS Nate said:

As I read the criticism here, it's not as much a criticism of the feature request system as it is criticism of the pace of feature development and the prioritization choices we have made in implementing new functionality. All three topics are valid things to provide feedback about; but when one sets about trying to solve them, being clear about which topic is problematic is critical to actually improving things.

my criticism is of all three.

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The feedback Ive gotten from customers is that they want major new features, and quality of life refinements, and bug fixes, and on-going maintenance, and back porting fixes, and documentation, and engagement. Implementing feature requests and new ideas we have is balanced with these other priorities. If there are areas you feel like we need are imbalanced, that is valuable feedback. My experience has been that majority of our customers want an 'all of the above' approach, not just one or two elements.

the highest priority should be to get the bugs/flaws out of the core product - I know they're there, you know they're there... but let's put them to one side and focus the development efforts on moneyspinners such as MarketConnect instead. I don't recall anyone ever asking for something like that.

everything else to that is secondary - important yes, but not urgent.

there's no point going over old ground, but the documentation has always been a joke - it was when I first installed it in 2013 and there were multiple pages contradicting each other - I started a list at the time, but noticed there were so many errors that I quickly gave up.

since then it's got worse - i've no doubt effort is being put into it, but the old docs were taken down long before the new docs were completed... and the technical docs are only really relevant for v7 - yet some of us developers are still being paid for solutions to v5 & v6 installations... and we're having to resort to our memory, and hopefully archive.org storing the old docs, to get the technical data we need to complete the projects... not every user is running v7.2.3 you know!

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The idea that if WHMCS were working as fast as it should, the number of open feature requests would go down, does not match my experience of how software evolves - for any product Ive ever worked on. Software where the number feature requests go down over time is typically software that is dead or abandoned.

I don't care about the overall number going down, I just want to be alive long enough to see some of them suggested and completed in a reasonable amount of time.

i've never suggested that all the features requests need to be completed, not even most of them, but those features that you determine to be good suggestions should be on a shortlist to be completed in months and NOT years.

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Ultimately our company leadership has to take all of the information they can gather and make choices.

and the company will live or die by those decisions... inactivity on this is not an option (or shouldn't be).

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Feedback from the community is an important part of the information they consider. That feedback comes in many different ways. The feature request system is a medium we have found helpful. If your feedback is "we want more new features", we hear that. If the feedback is: "these four features requests are really important to me and here is why" - that is also helpful. If you can order them by priority - even better.

i'm possibly not the best person to help with that... if I wanted a new feature, i'd write it myself (or in collaboration with others) - i'm struggling to think of a single situation where I would want a specific feature, but would be prepared to wait 2, 3 or 4+ years for WHMCS themselves to add it.

at best, I might suggest it during a beta development as i've seen action taken during that time... but once out of beta and the developers are back in their bunker, then abandon any hope of getting WHMCS to do anything quickly.

it's also entirely possible that a lot of the feature requests are actually from users who are not willing/wanting to pay a developer to create it for them - e.g., why should I pay MG or whoever $$$, when WHMCS might add it for free at some point? I certainly wouldn't object if when WHMCS

I rarely go to the FR site - it's literally one of the saddest places to visit.. users optimistically asking in a thread years after starting the thread, when a feature will be added and getting no response... it's not a site to visit with hope or even expectation.

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If you have suggestions about how we could improve the communication through the feature request system, that is also something we want to know. Hopefully Johns earlier clarification of what Under Consideration means and the workflow for requests will help set expectations better. I think Brian's last reply pointed to a major difference between how the feature request system works in practice and how some customers expect it to work here:

I deeply suspect this is a conversation that's been had many times over the years in these forums - i've certainly posted many times on it.

perhaps the FR works and it's just poor communication of it by WHMCS... that wouldn't surprise me as WHMCS has been one of the worst company communicators i've ever had to deal with - and that's not a criticism of the soldiers on the front line, it's of those at the top that make the decisions and those responsible for communicating with their user base.

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I also appreciate the feedback on the difficulty in finding specific ideas that has come up. Sorting through 1000+ items is not a simple problem. Feedback on how we can make that easier would be great.

off the top of my head...

1. scrap the current FR site - literally throw it away, even the current suggestions and start again from scratch - if any features are any good or popular, they'll be suggested again.
2. bring FR into these community/forums - ChrisD will likely know better than I if there is a viable way to do it with Invision, but anything would be better than the current system.
3. any features that you don't think will be viable for WHMCS to add themselves, point the thread to the community, or to getting a developer in - though the relevancy of that depends on the FR integration with the community.
4. every now and again when you have a shortlist of feature requests you consider adding (e.g 5), perhaps open a poll and get users to vote on which they would like to see added to the next release (even maintenance)... the ONLY thing that will improve the credibility of the FR system is seeing them implemented.
5. when a feature is added to a release, mention it clearly in the changelog and/or release notes - now ideally it would be a genuine request that was completed, and not a feature that you were going to add anyway and you then try to find a request for and link the two together.

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Im not sure this is a defence of the feature request system, but I hope that it does work as a defence of interaction and communication. As an employee, I am most successful when I deliver high quality software that adds value for my customers. WHMCS as an organization is best off if we provide the tools our customers need. Our customers are better off when WHMCS solves problems. The most effective way to get there is collaboratively.

which I think is the point of this thread!