durangod Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I just have to say that i just got my WHMCS bill and im not paying it, im not gonna sit here and be forced into doubling my expense with no explaination of what i get for it, what plans they have for it, just because WHMCS feels we can afford it. In my mind thats all it is, they feel we can be sqeezed so they are sqeezing us for more. Im am no longer going to argue about it happening, its gonna happen regardless of what we say or do. Corp has spoken and im guessing the new front man for WHMCS has spoken as well with a oh so typical Corp attitude - take it or leave it. So i shall do just that, i shall leave it. I will update with critical patches which are free and maybe update the version every 3 years to keep my cost down. Your not gonna get rich while i suffer WHMCS, no way... and now i have said my final peace on this, enjoy your new wealth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isdoo Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Problem is they will maybe stop critical updates - is there any guarantee they will continue them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinpa1969 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ok, Im going to get yelled at for this but Dave will you PLEASE put the whine back in the bottle. Do you actually ever have anything constructive to say? Your almost as bad as the Professional Protesters bussed into Baltimore 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durangod Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ok, Im going to get yelled at for this but Dave will you PLEASE put the whine back in the bottle. Do you actually ever have anything constructive to say? Your almost as bad as the Professional Protesters bussed into Baltimore Says the person using an unconstructive remark. I tried to be constuctive, talked about doing this for new clients instead of current clients. I talked about serveral options and agree with some alternate options only to be ridiculed and told "take it or leave it". And merlina why dont you just tell the truth and be honest instead. Stop trying to kiss up to the very people that you talk about behind their backs in private conversations. At least im totally honest and upfront about my feelings and i dont hide anything sir. Like it or not what you see is what you get with me, i dont say one thing in PM and another in public. At least with me people know where they stand and dont have to guess. But back on topic here... There are lots of ways they could do this but they decided just to force it down our throat, thats what im concerned about because whats next. If we let them start dong this over and over again without saying anything at all where does it end. About the critical updates, i puchased the full software with the understanding that critical security updates would be included. If they cut those out then i guess ill finally get to meet some of the people at WHMCS afterall along with my attorney huh.... Im just saying, it is what it is and nothing i can do about it, but its not right and thats all i was trying to say is that its not the proper way to do business. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinpa1969 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 But back on topic here... There are lots of ways they could do this but they decided just to force it down our throat, thats what im concerned about because whats next. If we let them start dong this over and over again without saying anything at all where does it end. This is the FIRST price upgrade in 8 years, not sure where the over and over is coming from About the critical updates, i puchased the full software with the understanding that critical security updates would be included Earlier in this thread someone from WHMCS actually replied on this that Critical upgrades are still covered, and trust me, I am NOT afraid to speak out about the establishment, it got me in trouble before, at this time there is nothing to speak out against, The fact that I am pointing out is that all you seem to be doing is trying to stir the crap pot just like bussed in protesters 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durangod Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) I wasnt trying to stir up anything, i was simply making a statement that i thought was right. I cant be blamed if this is such a sensitive topic that people get ticked off easily, thats not my problem. I said what i had to say and i even said i was done now. You sir are the one that wanted to tell me about my unconstructive remark by using an unconstructive remark. All you have to do is press the unsubscribe button there merlinpa. Now as per the topic it does not matter how long its been you dont tell your clients "take it or leave it" i dont care what business you are, you are going to provoke outrage in doing so. Somehow everyone time someone makes a valid point we get redirected to "you can afford it" or some other focus when the focus is and should be its not how you treat clients period.. Talk about the establishment trying to derail a thread, i made a comment about hope you can sleep at night which was a figure of speach about feeling guilty, had nothing to do with sleeping omg... And i was told that was overboard..... Maybe i should not use figure of speachs on this board because someone uneducated may not understand them. I also spoke about how this affects the little guy and i was told i was just whining about it. So i say whatever folks. Hopefully by the time next year comes i will have sold my interest in this and be out of this business and out of this forum so no worries. And no i didnt read your PM merlinpa i just deleted it and i put you on my ignore list so dont send me any more PM's Edited June 5, 2015 by durangod 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infopro Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 ... I shall comment no more... ... and now i have said my final peace on this, enjoy your new wealth. ... Like it or not what you see is what you get with me, i dont say one thing in PM and another in public. At least with me people know where they stand and dont have to guess. ... I disagree. ... I wasnt trying to stir up anything, i was simply making a statement that i thought was right. I cant be blamed if this is such a sensitive topic that people get ticked off easily, thats not my problem. I said what i had to say and i even said i was done now. ... At this point, I believe you have more posts in the thread than most anyone else including a few last posts. You don't need to stop posting if you don't want to stop posting, but repeating the same comments you've already made are not making things any different. You like to bump threads, it is what it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durangod Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I wasnt bumping anything, you seem to think all the time that i have alternative motives, maybe its because others do i dont know but i dont. I simply felt like posting so i did, its really that simple.. And shouldnt you be focused on moderating instead of participating, you have an issue with your forum right now that the server is too busy. Isnt that what you should be focused on and let us work things out for ourselves mr. sherrif of nutterville. I think i speak for most when i say unless it has to do with a problem with the thread or something you really need to police, the less said by you the better and we really dont want to hear from you otherwise. A moderator should never really poke their finger into a thread unless its really needed, they should be silent and just moderate and not participate. Sorry i dont mean to be crass im just being honest the less said by you the better, we are big boys, let us work it out ourselves you dont need to get involved unless there is a violation of policy, serioulsy... . I have no plans to post on this thread anymore unless it is do defend my observations and postion. Otherwise i am done, just dont goat me into replying and i wont. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex - Arvixe Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I just have to say that i just got my WHMCS bill and im not paying it, im not gonna sit here and be forced into doubling my expense with no explaination of what i get for it, what plans they have for it, just because WHMCS feels we can afford it. In my mind thats all it is, they feel we can be sqeezed so they are sqeezing us for more. Im am no longer going to argue about it happening, its gonna happen regardless of what we say or do. Corp has spoken and im guessing the new front man for WHMCS has spoken as well with a oh so typical Corp attitude - take it or leave it. So i shall do just that, i shall leave it. I will update with critical patches which are free and maybe update the version every 3 years to keep my cost down. Your not gonna get rich while i suffer WHMCS, no way... and now i have said my final peace on this, enjoy your new wealth. To be fair, they did offer you some notice so you could renew (2 years according to some at WHT) at the $49.95 rate. That would have set you up for quite some time at which point hopefully you can justify the costs. Obviously no one is going to like a price increase but it has happened and nothing can be done about that. If it is a real issue for you, you might want to look into other options such as Blesta. However testing, migrating and then assisting any client issues when moving to a different platform is probably going to cost more than $99.95. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durangod Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Thanks alex, no i wont migrate ill just get out of the business when the time is right. Hosting is way to high maintenance for little income and i make much more money doing my mods and custom coding with allot less hassle and overhead. So when the time is right i will just sell my license and close the door on this chapter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infopro Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 ... And shouldnt you be focused on moderating instead of participating, you have an issue with your forum right now that the server is too busy. Isnt that what you should be focused on ... Nope, we have a very capable SySAdmin team that takes care of issues with the servers. ... and let us work things out for ourselves mr. sherrif of nutterville. I think i speak for most ... As Sheriff of nuttersville, I'm going to ban you for a bit after I respond to your comment. I have given you as much room to go as I could, and you keep going for it. So long for now Dave, no worries though, it won't be a perm ban. See you when you get back in a few months. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapeix Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I would agree with the upcoming price increase if the iPhone app for example, would be free of cost. Yet, it isn't, and that makes me worried. What if you guys will ask money for every new feature, year after year? I think a lot of customers will lose their trust in WHMCS, because of doubt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinpa1969 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Tapiex, just a ittle background, This is the first price increase in 8 years, the Iphone APP has never been included and I personally dont see why it should be included now, Have Your costs for Domains or SSL certs increased in the last 8 years, Have the prices for servers went up i the last 8 years, im not sure why people are so upset about a price increase, Yes its almost double. should they have had a 15% Increase every few years, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desquinn Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I am ok with the idea of buying a couple of year worth of support updates and softening the blow and think this being made clear at the start would make it a lot better to swallow. Wondering if you don't want the discussion to happen on there whether it is better to lock the discussion rather than people getting themselves into bother when they share their opinion? Tapiex, just a ittle background, .... Yes its almost double. should they have had a 15% Increase every few years, Its more than double and yes a 5% or 15% increase each year would have been better. Setting expectations is a great thing in business. help prevent people getting really annoyed very quickly in my experience. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinpa1969 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Its more than double and yes a 5% or 15% increase each year would have been better. Setting expectations is a great thing in business. help prevent people getting really annoyed very quickly in my experience. But if you read back through this thread, thats one of the things people are whacking about, the possibility of an annual increase Costs go up and those funds have to come from some where, and pretty much the folks I see raising a fuss want it to be the sme price for life, and thats never going to happen in any business, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malfunction Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Costs go up and those funds have to come from some where, and pretty much the folks I see raising a fuss want it to be the sme price for life, and thats never going to happen in any business, Except in the hosting business. In ten years of WHMCS, general hosting prices have gone down Hosted site prices are generally set for life. You also mention domains (yes OK, up a bit because of monopolistic behavior by Verisign), SSL (gone way down, I pay less than a quarter of what I paid in 2005). Servers? We pay less for for those through efficiency gains and economies of scale. Our selling prices are the same or less than 2005. So I don't really get your blind acceptance that yeah. everything in the world costs more so that's just normal and it doesn't matter whether you actually get anything for it. Hosting margins are under pressure all the time and so for us (and presumably the exiled durangod) it does matter - everybody doubling their prices for stuff with no appreciable return for us = losses. It's not so much the $55/year, more the principle of an underperforming company dumping a big pricing increase on us just because they can. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isdoo Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Tapiex, just a ittle background, This is the first price increase in 8 years, the Iphone APP has never been included and I personally dont see why it should be included now, Have Your costs for Domains or SSL certs increased in the last 8 years, Have the prices for servers went up i the last 8 years, im not sure why people are so upset about a price increase, Yes its almost double. should they have had a 15% Increase every few years, No - server costs have come down. No- SSL costs have come down Bandwidth has come down. etc.... Nobody is arguing that costs should not rise - HOWEVER - that should be for new customers and not for current customers. There is a big difference. or are you telling me that if your server costs suddenly doubled for the same product you would be happy to pay? Of course not, and it wouldn't happen. I have seen this before with modernbill, who then sold out fully to Plesk, at which point WHMCS got many new customers. I am hoping that history is not about to repeat itself..... The offer of a number of years is reasonable, but there should be no need to offer that. It should be automatic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panacheweb Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 what people seem to be missing here is the human factor.. the cost to have someone sit at a computer for 8 hours to answer intensive technical questions.. you are not going to pay someone min wage to do that are you? The min wage has gone up in the past 10 years, as has the cost of living, you have to calculate the costs for that when you look at hiring someone. We're talking if we are hiring someone to work 5 days a week to answer support tickets you will be paying them a living wage to do so. and if they are going to be a level two technician, then their value and cost of the employee goes up. IF they are planning to ramp up support to where people are not waiting days to get an answer in some departments or having to wait a day, but instead only waiting hours then I can see the costs of hiring a dozen employees.. There are multiple factors, such as are they USA or UK support location. are we talking being paid in USA dollars are UK Pounds? When you sit here and look at factors such as these you can start to understand what is being planned. What if they are planning to have 24 hour support where 16 hours is handled in both the UK and USA? Just my thoughts.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanP Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) what people seem to be missing here is the human factor.. the cost to have someone sit at a computer for 8 hours to answer intensive technical questions.. you are not going to pay someone min wage to do that are you? I was thinking along the same lines. You have to also think about the cost of developers. Their wages, benefit costs (such as healthcare), and taxes have all risen over the years. Also, the cost of the facility where the staff will work (the office), the electric bill to keep the lights on, etc., etc. These things have all gone up in cost, over the years. A lot of the services mentioned, that the prices have stayed the same or have gone down, are partly due to large companies trying to gain market share. Many very large hosting providers are "giving" away services in order to gain a majority of the market share. Many are not even profitable, or are just now starting to show a profit after several years in business. Also, admitting that all of your costs for domains, servers, etc have gone down, just shows you are making more money and can afford to pay for better software and better support. WHMCS support has drastically improved over the past year. Over the past year they have gotten a lot better about security, as well. The security bounty program appears to have really helped them to keep on top of vulnerabilities. Also, version 6 is coming along with new features, a new PHP database extension, and responsive templates. People demand better and more secure software, with better support. All of these things cost money. Do I hate to have to spend more money? Yes. Do I understand why they are charging more? Yes. WHMCS is the core application I use to run my business. For what it provides my company, the cost is minuscule. Edited June 8, 2015 by SeanP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMAN GHOST Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 AWBS will be my next hosting bill. I submit ticket for more than 24 hours and no answer until now and they want 99.99% for renewal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinpa1969 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 AWBS will be my next hosting bill. version 2.9.6 was released 6/7/2012 PHP 5.4 patch available for AWBS 2.9.6 09-09-2013 10:36 AM 1 Year Support - includes free upgrades, patches, fixes for your AWBS version and helpdesk support services. This means you have access to the download area for a full year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHMCS Support Manager WHMCS John Posted June 8, 2015 WHMCS Support Manager Share Posted June 8, 2015 I submit ticket for more than 24 hours and no answer until now and they want 99.99% for renewal. Hi, Your ticket #YKD-991798 was submitted to customer service on Sunday 7th June at 13:44 and was replied today Monday 8th June at 04:03 (CST). So that's a <15 hour response time on a department which is closed at weekends, and even then you received a response 3 hours before the department's advertised opening time. Also the new renewal price will be $99.95. I trust that clarifies matters! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panacheweb Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Hi,So that's a <15 hour response time on a department which is closed at weekends, and even then you received a response 3 hours before the department's advertised opening time. perhaps you guys need to hire more staff to resolve these turn around times Also maybe put those support hours on your support tickets, and what timezone those hours are in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanP Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Also maybe put those support hours on your support tickets, and what timezone those hours are in. The support hours and timezones are here: http://www.whmcs.com/support/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panacheweb Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The support hours and timezones are here: http://www.whmcs.com/support/ not everyone goes to that page... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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