Finding Nulled WHMCS distributions!

[yggdrasil]

55 minutes ago, Kian said:

SaaS can stop it.

Well, of course, you don't own the computer at that point. You don't own anything in fact, not even the data. Not an easy sell for this kind of market.

Edited April 11, 2019 by yggdrasil

[bear]

1 hour ago, Kian said:

SaaS can stop it.

And that would definitely have me move off WHMCS (though we own ours). 

[yggdrasil]

10 minutes ago, bear said:

And that would definitely have me move off WHMCS (though we own ours). 

Probably everyone.

[steven99]

2 hours ago, Kian said:

SaaS can stop it.

I can't trust a SaaS for a critical part of the business for multiple reasons from security to being dependent on that companies servers to be up 100% of the time and then locked in to them unless you get an export script done -- if even possible. 

[jster1324]

Boy you can bet we would leave so quick if they force us into a SaaS model. If the goal for SaaS is to combat piracy then they would have to stop distributing the owned version. 

 

Luckily SaaS is also more profitable because you can charge a markup on hosting so that's probably their goal. 

[yggdrasil]

6 hours ago, jster1324 said:

Boy you can bet we would leave so quick if they force us into a SaaS model. If the goal for SaaS is to combat piracy then they would have to stop distributing the owned version. 

 

Luckily SaaS is also more profitable because you can charge a markup on hosting so that's probably their goal. 

Not going to work for me. This is why I don't use something like TeamViewer for remote support either and use ConnectWise Control hosted on premise. To be in compliance with some of my customers, that data and communications needs to be on my systems, not a third party service/servers. Hence, SaaS is a very bad option for specific service providers like me. I need to run almost everything on networks and servers I control.

[Sanora Dev]

1 hour ago, yggdrasil said:

Not going to work for me. This is why I don't use something like TeamViewer for remote support either and use ConnectWise Control hosted on premise. To be in compliance with some of my customers, that data and communications needs to be on my systems, not a third party service/servers. Hence, SaaS is a very bad option for specific service providers like me. I need to run almost everything on networks and servers I control.

True, privacy is a big issue nowadays

[Kian]

15 hours ago, yggdrasil said:

Well, of course, you don't own the computer at that point. You don't own anything in fact, not even the data. Not an easy sell for this kind of market.

For example a SaaS based on blockchain doesn't need to know anything. You have the key to unlock the door. No one else can. Actually there is (or was) more than a project based on creating a cloud platform to host mission-critical "websites" on blockchain but I understand that a car that flies makes more sense.

13 hours ago, steven99 said:

I can't trust a SaaS for a critical part of the business for multiple reasons from security to being dependent on that companies servers to be up 100% of the time and then locked in to them unless you get an export script done -- if even possible. 

I'm not an hosting provider (at least not anymore 😊 best decision ever) but providers are already dependent to some extent on third parties. For SSL and domains you have very limited control. You can perform some actions (renew, initiate trasnfer, delete...) but you are actually using a kind of SaaS. You rely on external trusted Authorities that receive your precious data. You don't know what they do and that they can go offline. Just look at official servers used to check domain availability. They're not so stable but you have no other option.

5 hours ago, Devias said:

True, privacy is a big issue nowadays

Spoiler alert: this is a big rant. Privacy is a big joke nowadays. To me privacy is this s**t:

Don't get me wrong, I'm black belt of privacy. I read every single word of terms & conditions, when I submit a form I feel like I'm signing in blood, I turn off or block everything I can until they invented cookie policy and GDPR. Now I no longer give a damn about my personal privacy 😡 I'm exhausted by popups! How am I supposed to re-read conditions every single time I visit or re-visit a website? And the GDPR is even worse. I need to digitally sign tens of agreements even with digital tax stamps that do not increase security or privacy. If I have bad intentions I can still freely do anything I want.

Nowadays there's no privacy but just a lot of pseudo-privacy made of popups that no one can read.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Kian

[mfoland]

@WHMCS ChrisD @WHMCS John What about making WHMCS more open like Blesta? Especially stuff like the Licensing Addon where it can be more customized. The fact of Blesta opening its code base save for licensing really has allowed for developers to develops mods and even expand there own Blesta. There’s things I would like to do with WHMCS to make it more customizable. Just my take.

[Sanora Dev]

5 minutes ago, Kian said:

A SaaS based on blockchain doesn't need to know anything. You have the key to unlock the door. No one else can. Actually there is (or was) more than a project based on creating a cloud platform to host mission-critical "websites" on blockchain but I understand that a car that flies makes more sense.

I'm not an hosting provider (at least not anymore 😊 best decision ever) but providers are already dependent to some extent on third parties. For SSL and domains you have a very limited control. You can perform some actions (renew, initiate trasnfer, delete...) but you are actually using a kind of SaaS. You rely on external trusted Authorities that receive your precious data. You don't know what they do and that they can go offline. Just look at official servers used to check domain availability. They're not so stable but you have no other option.

Spoiler alert: this is a big rant. Privacy is a big joke nowadays. To me privacy is this s**t:

Don't get me wrong, I'm black belt of privacy. I read every single word of terms & conditions, when I submit a form I feel like I'm signing in blood, I turn off or block everything I can until they invented cookie policy and GDPR. Now I no longer give a damn about my personal privacy 😡 I'm exhausted by popups! How am I supposed to re-read conditions every single time I visit or re-visit a website? And the GDPR is even worse. I need to digitally sign tens of agreements even with digital tax stamps that do not increase security or privacy. If I have bad intentions I can still freely do anything I want.

Nowadays there's no privacy but just a lot of pseudo-privacy made of popups that no one can read.

Kian,

I have to agree with you, it's hard to have some privacy nowadays. I must say i don't have any social media (no facebook or instagram) personal only for business. So i have a little bit of privacy:-)

[yggdrasil]

8 hours ago, Devias said:

True, privacy is a big issue nowadays

With GDPR in place I don't think you can even outsource your customers data and billing like that anymore either.

[yggdrasil]

3 hours ago, Kian said:

For example a SaaS based on blockchain doesn't need to know anything. You have the key to unlock the door. No one else can. Actually there is (or was) more than a project based on creating a cloud platform to host mission-critical "websites" on blockchain but I understand that a car that flies makes more sense.

I'm not an hosting provider (at least not anymore 😊 best decision ever) but providers are already dependent to some extent on third parties. For SSL and domains you have very limited control. You can perform some actions (renew, initiate trasnfer, delete...) but you are actually using a kind of SaaS. You rely on external trusted Authorities that receive your precious data. You don't know what they do and that they can go offline. Just look at official servers used to check domain availability. They're not so stable but you have no other option.

Spoiler alert: this is a big rant. Privacy is a big joke nowadays. To me privacy is this s**t:

Don't get me wrong, I'm black belt of privacy. I read every single word of terms & conditions, when I submit a form I feel like I'm signing in blood, I turn off or block everything I can until they invented cookie policy and GDPR. Now I no longer give a damn about my personal privacy 😡 I'm exhausted by popups! How am I supposed to re-read conditions every single time I visit or re-visit a website? And the GDPR is even worse. I need to digitally sign tens of agreements even with digital tax stamps that do not increase security or privacy. If I have bad intentions I can still freely do anything I want.

Nowadays there's no privacy but just a lot of pseudo-privacy made of popups that no one can read.

I'm not against SaaS. I would argue that I even sell some SaaS solutions and most WHMCS customers probably do as well. My point is that it does not work for all markets just like the cloud is the worst possible solution over other forms of data computing. I also offer cloud services but I would not argue its the best solution for everything either. I use gazillion remote services, and cloud services, but I also use tons of on premise owned softwares. Nothing wrong with mixing things.

Its very simple. Do you use Windows or Linux? Do you own a phone or a computer? Why? Leased cars also work great but most people prefer to own their cars. Why? Modifications most likely. Same goes for rent or owning your property. It gives you a freedom to adapt and do things which otherwise you need permission from someone else.

Why are you running a local operating system and buying software or apps to run them locally if you can live without any computer and use remote SaaS services for everything? Would you like your operating system to be a cloud operating system, all data is saved or pulled from some remote servers and they can shut down access at any moment?

Some things run better on your own hard drive and computer. Some must. Some run better in the cloud because you need access from everywhere. Some stuff works great in a mixed setup, runs locally but then syncs to the cloud. SaaS or the cloud is just another persons computer in the end and nothing more.

Something like WHMCS if you see to what type of customers its targeting as a business model, SaaS would destroy them as a company. Companies would not move into that model not because of money but control. Giving up the control of your business like that could mean game over for some people, if the SaaS provider has a glitch, is compromised, has privacy issues or decides to shut down out of the blue. I experienced it all over the years....Even Google cannot keep up most of their products and constantly shuts down products. 

There is a reason why big enterprises run more and more on open source yet they pay fortunes to companies like Red Hat, Oracle or Citrix for support and updates. Its because open source gives them no vendor lock in. SaaS is 100% vendor lock. You cannot run a business with a template. SaaS means the service is the same for everyone and extremely hard to customize if not impossible to integrate with your own on premise or private systems. How would I connect a SaaS software to my management VLAN's or local network? How would I air gap specific critical parts that handle authentication or users passwords? How would I modify the code so it plays nicely with all my other integrations and platforms? I can't, because its not my computer and I have no access to the code. In fact, this is why I criticize WHMCS so much lately, because they are encoding more stuff and it feels more like a boxed product, template or remote service, more power for them, less for us customers. That is nice for a newbie, having all those click and play options and easy setup but it fails horrible for most advanced service providers or people that need more complex stuff, you don't need to be a big company to require something fancy or complex either, and those are the loyal customers that will pay the bills every months, the newbies most likely try WHMCS and then stop using it after a year as their startup fails.

SaaS is a great model for some stuff. For some markets its suicide and the competition will eat you alive.

[yggdrasil]

4 hours ago, mfoland said:

@WHMCS ChrisD @WHMCS John What about making WHMCS more open like Blesta? Especially stuff like the Licensing Addon where it can be more customized. The fact of Blesta opening its code base save for licensing really has allowed for developers to develops mods and even expand there own Blesta. There’s things I would like to do with WHMCS to make it more customizable. Just my take.

Good luck with that. 😪

[Kian]

Probably I didnt express myself clearly. I don't want WHMCS to become SaaS. Actually I would love to stay with Six template and WHMCS v7 till 2030 for the simple reason that I don't want to re-code and re-test stuff 🤣 I just wanted to point out that SaaS is a model that stops piracy. You can't steal Gmail, MS 365, Slack, DropBox etc. Like it? Buy it. It's pure joy for developers.

[mfoland]

7 hours ago, Kian said:

Probably I didnt express myself clearly. I don't want WHMCS to become SaaS. Actually I would love to stay with Six template and WHMCS v7 till 2030 for the simple reason that I don't want to re-code and re-test stuff 🤣 I just wanted to point out that SaaS is a model that stops piracy. You can't steal Gmail, MS 365, Slack, DropBox etc. Like it? Buy it. It's pure joy for developers.

But we want piracy to stop LOL

[yggdrasil]

12 hours ago, Kian said:

Probably I didnt express myself clearly. I don't want WHMCS to become SaaS. Actually I would love to stay with Six template and WHMCS v7 till 2030 for the simple reason that I don't want to re-code and re-test stuff 🤣 I just wanted to point out that SaaS is a model that stops piracy. You can't steal Gmail, MS 365, Slack, DropBox etc. Like it? Buy it. It's pure joy for developers.

While you could argue those products are SaaS because sure, software is involved, I consider those services more than SaaS. You don't get access to their software running on their servers, in that sense its just a service, you don't get the platform but are just one more users, you can even argue those are cloud services. I don't get the DropBox server side software, or Gmail, or Slack...

SaaS usually means Software as a Service, that means what you want is the software itself and its delivered as a service model vs the old traditional buy a box in the store model. But SaaS can mean many things, that it runs on third party servers, that its delivered with monthly updates as a service, etc. Windows 10 is considered SaaS now with 2 major yearly updates. In that sense, WHMCS is already SaaS. You cannot purchase it anymore. You can only lease it and you get regular updates. Even with owned licenses from previous customers, its still SaaS because you still need to pay the updates every 6 months or twice a year. While the owned license will not stop working without those updates, it will be become useless very fast. So if you think about this, WHMCS is already Software as a Service since they don't sell owned licenses anymore. You pay the fees every month or every year. Stop paying, it stops working.

Edited April 13, 2019 by yggdrasil

[Kian]

WHMCS is SaaS only for the pricing part. I was just saying that SaaS (a real one like Gmail, Analytics, Uber...) stops piracy since the "brain" is not installed on your computer. You can't download and crack it. This is the main purpose of SaaS.

A software doesn't become SaaS just because it has a recurring price. It would be an oversimplified view of this technology. Similarly there's no AI in my phone and in almost every device that claims to have an AI. They're just a series of ifs().

[bear]

8 hours ago, yggdrasil said:

Even with owned licenses from previous customers, its still SaaS because you still need to pay the updates every 6 months or twice a year.

I would disagree there. With my owned license it doesn't stop working or prevent access if I don't pay the support fee. I just can't get new versions and presumably full support. So not SAAS. The newer licensing model is a subscription for software, with the penalty for non-payment being loss of access to the admin area. You still have access to the database, so the "brain" is still on your system, but the key to get in is withheld. In a way, SAAS.

Adobe does SAAS, with the subscription model in CC. You pay, you get access to the software and files created, but if you stop, you can't do anything with either (regarding native formats). Others, like Kayako, host the actual data and software, so stop paying, lose it all.

[yggdrasil]

7 hours ago, Kian said:

WHMCS is SaaS only for the pricing part. I was just saying that SaaS (a real one like Gmail, Analytics, Uber...) stops piracy since the "brain" is not installed on your computer. You can't download and crack it. This is the main purpose of SaaS.

A software doesn't become SaaS just because it has a recurring price. It would be an oversimplified view of this technology. Similarly there's no AI in my phone and in almost every device that claims to have an AI. They're just a series of ifs().

Well, in the end its just a marketing word. Just like cloud means nothing really, grid, clustered computers exists for decades, that includes virtualization yet somehow everyone started to call them cloud services. Now we call cloud to anything running on the Internet somewhere..... Not different to the new marketing terms server less computing....

[yggdrasil]

5 hours ago, bear said:

I would disagree there. With my owned license it doesn't stop working or prevent access if I don't pay the support fee. I just can't get new versions and presumably full support. So not SAAS. The newer licensing model is a subscription for software, with the penalty for non-payment being loss of access to the admin area. You still have access to the database, so the "brain" is still on your system, but the key to get in is withheld. In a way, SAAS.

Adobe does SAAS, with the subscription model in CC. You pay, you get access to the software and files created, but if you stop, you can't do anything with either (regarding native formats). Others, like Kayako, host the actual data and software, so stop paying, lose it all.

Yes, but from a technical business perspective its still an actual hiding subscription. It will not stop working immediately but will eventually. PHP will keep moving forward, eventually you will need to upgrade your software to be compatible. Same goes for MariaDB, your operating system, etc. You will be forced to upgrade eventually as things stops working. This without taking into account security patches. Sure, you can argue you can run it on forever on a closed system (not even true with WHMCS since it requires license checks...) that is not exposed online for security reasons but that is not how most people run server installations. With things that run online and are exposed to the public, patches and updates are critical. So you will always end up paying the WHMCS updates every year anyway.

As for the Adobe model. It sucks. This is why I moved out of all their products and saved tons of money. For local hosted software that works in your computer, one of the most interests model I found was Jetbrains. While they moved to a subscription model, if you don't pay, you are still entitled to the previous last major version. So in that regard while you cannot use the latest version anymore if you stop paying, you still get something in return for the money you paid previously, you can use the previous versions forever. In that sense Adobe is a rip off. You stop paying after 3 or 5 years and you get nothing but air for that money. Nothing in return.

The big difference between subscriptions and buying software is also the following. A company or person can calculate buying software as purchases, investment. Its an easy sell. While a subscription is not an investment, it's an expense, hard to sell. In that regard, companies that sell software have far more sales, people prefer to own things and companies can also sell purchase on IT or management as investment or acquiring assets. I know I purchased more than one software and never used it, but if it was a subscription I would had cancelled it after the second month. Those companies earned more from me than selling a subscription because people tend to buy things they don't need. Me included.

Buying software is buying digital assets. Buying subscriptions usually goes into the utilities expense category on accounting and nobody wants to increase its monthly utilities. I know that is the first place I try to reduce money when cash is short as all those monthly fees are the ones that eat you alive.

I suspect WHMCS sold tons of licenses, to hosting companies, resellers, distributors, etc in the past. Now that market is gone since it involves a monthly fee forever.

[bear]

3 hours ago, yggdrasil said:

As for the Adobe model. It sucks. .....In that sense Adobe is a rip off. You stop paying after 3 or 5 years and you get nothing but air for that money. Nothing in return.

Again I'd have to disagree to a point, this time about Adobe products.
I've gotten to keep up with current versions, use any of the software in the entire library of apps they have in CC, and have made literally thousands upon thousands of dollars as a direct result of being able to service design (graphic, web and print) customers using it. Yes, if I stop paying I'll lose access to the software and any *proprietary* content created (as in .psd, .ai and .indd files and so on), but not the money earned while using it. Are there other apps that can do what they do? Probably, but certainly not with the interconnectivity and ease, not to mention how familiar I am with them. 

Do I like the subscription model? Definitely not. Have I learned (and earned) while using it? Definitely have. Toss up for me. 

[yggdrasil]

2 hours ago, bear said:

Again I'd have to disagree to a point, this time about Adobe products.
I've gotten to keep up with current versions, use any of the software in the entire library of apps they have in CC, and have made literally thousands upon thousands of dollars as a direct result of being able to service design (graphic, web and print) customers using it. Yes, if I stop paying I'll lose access to the software and any *proprietary* content created (as in .psd, .ai and .indd files and so on), but not the money earned while using it. Are there other apps that can do what they do? Probably, but certainly not with the interconnectivity and ease, not to mention how familiar I am with them. 

Do I like the subscription model? Definitely not. Have I learned (and earned) while using it? Definitely have. Toss up for me. 

Well, that is great for you but I don't agree with that model. Being locked out of my work and files is unacceptable. Its my work and data. This is like saying you would be ok if Google locks you out of Android or Microsoft out of a Windows computer once the license expires. Lets be clear here. I paid for the ssd drives on which those files are stored. Not adobe. I pay for the computing power, CPU and RAM while creating that work, I paid for my computer and not Adobe. And its me that is paying for the energy its consuming while running their software or parts I replace when they break like mouse, keyboard, etc.

As for the interconnectivity? I can open all files with other editors, that includes Adobe files as well. I would rather not have vendor lock in. The big problem with the Adobe subscription models is that it makes people naturally flow into using all Adobe products because they are included as part of the subscription. So it seems like a great deal but is it? Using inferiors tools (yes, because Adobe softwares are really bad in almost everything except maybe 2 things) means you are using mediocre tools instead of the best money can buy. I realized this quickly enough, both in audio, video, and many other things. That Adobe is not really used by the top professionals in those areas. Adobe products are in fact the underdog products in most categories. Sure, the others might cost more but that is the top of the line. I would rather use the best I can get. That means the best video editor, or the best audio editor, or the best coding editor. Besides Photoshop, and maybe Illustrator, all other Adobe products are just bad, really buggy, horrible in performance and just a pain to use.

In that regard, that subscription is maybe saving you some money but you are being confortable by using inferior tools for some types of work. Just my opinion. I once was all Adobe as well, not anymore. I realized I was missing out on better things and something in me feels great that I'm not giving them money anymore every year. If it works for you great, but many people thing there is nothing better than Adobe and that is not the case. I found alternatives for every single one of their softwares, at least the ones I used.

Edited April 14, 2019 by yggdrasil

[bear]

10 hours ago, yggdrasil said:

Besides Photoshop, and maybe Illustrator, all other Adobe products are just bad, really buggy, horrible in performance and just a pain to use.

I use Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver and InDesign mostly. I've found nothing that comes close to any of those for what they do. 

 

10 hours ago, yggdrasil said:

I can open all files with other editors, that includes Adobe files as well

What programs other than Adobe's can you open .psd, .ai and .indd files with and have them be fully editable?

[bear]

10 hours ago, yggdrasil said:

I pay for the computing power, CPU and RAM while creating that work, I paid for my computer and not Adobe. And its me that is paying for the energy its consuming while running their software or parts I replace when they break like mouse, keyboard, etc.

But you do pay for the *software* you use. Without it, the point is moot. 

[yggdrasil]

6 hours ago, bear said:

But you do pay for the *software* you use. Without it, the point is moot. 

Yes, of course, but with one model you are forced to pay before X date or you are locked out of the software. With the traditional model I can upgrade when I decide, I can even skip an update if I think its not worth paying.

Edited April 14, 2019 by yggdrasil