Whmcs underhanded business practice

[ecayer]

My support was expired in June and WHMCS 6.3.1 was released on 13th Apr 2016.

 

If the latest was released during my support period, why am I not allowed to download this release?

I paid for this update as it was released during the period i paid for.

 

I really do not like this type of business practice and im starting to think that WHMCS is a truly dishonest company who is trying to nickle and dime customers.

[brian!]

can you not download it from http://download.whmcs.com or http://www.whmcs.com/members/downloads.php?action=displaycat&catid=1 ?

you will need to login - but I assume even with no support, you can still login to your WHMCS.com account and download ??

[ecayer]

can you not download it from http://download.whmcs.com or http://www.whmcs.com/members/downloads.php?action=displaycat&catid=1 ?

you will need to login - but I assume even with no support, you can still login to your WHMCS.com account and download ??

 

You cant download anything even if it was released during your support period.

Very unfair business practice by WHMCS

[brian!]

have you thought about opening a ticket directly with WHMCS ?

if you still have a valid license, you should be able to login and open a ticket with them - if you can't, you should still be able to contact customer support.

[zomex]

Try opening a ticket with WHMCS. It may be their policy that downloads are no longer accessible after the access expires even regardless of release date. If this is the case hopefully they will make an acceptation for you.

[twhiting9275]

Open up a support ticket. We won't be able to tell you what is going on in the forums. There's likely more to this story.

[WHMCS Edward]

That's correct, you must have an active and current subscription in order to download releases of the product. Support and updates have always worked this way. We're completely up-front about this and provide information regarding it here: http://docs.whmcs.com/Renewing_Support_and_Updates

 

-Eddy

[twhiting9275]

I think the point here is that the user had a subscription that was active during the period this was released.

If the release was made during the time when support was valid, then said release should be made available to customer, whether or not they have a (current) active license.

That's the way WHMCS has always worked, and the way every other piece of software handles this.

 

The reason for this ? If , say, client needs to move website, or rebuild from scratch, they should be able to download the most current release available to them at any time.

The only exception to this would be , say in the case of 5.3.xxx or older, where those releases aren't made publicly available. Then support would need to give them the release if they have it.

 

Again, though, this is something that forums can't really help out with, as stated. You'll need to contact the support team and sort this out

[easyhosting]

I think the point here is that the user had a subscription that was active during the period this was released.

If the release was made during the time when support was valid, then said release should be made available to customer, whether or not they have a (current) active license.

That's the way WHMCS has always worked, and the way every other piece of software handles this.

 

The reason for this ? If , say, client needs to move website, or rebuild from scratch, they should be able to download the most current release available to them at any time.

The only exception to this would be , say in the case of 5.3.xxx or older, where those releases aren't made publicly available. Then support would need to give them the release if they have it.

 

Again, though, this is something that forums can't really help out with, as stated. You'll need to contact the support team and sort this out

 

 

but as updates are a support element then support must be active at the time you want to download the software regardless if you had active support when the issues was released, it will tell you download a copy to your local server. I always keep copies of any release

[twhiting9275]

support must be active at the time you want to download the software

Not true, unless WHMCS has changed this over the past few months, in which case I'd agree with the OP, that this is an underhanded practice.

 

I can go to any site I've purchased software from over the years (and there are quite a few) and download the latest available software to me, at any time, irregardless of 'update' status. I would simply not be able to download updated versions. This is industry standard, and at least up until a few months ago, how WHMCS operated. Again, if they changed that, then yes, that's underhanded by far.

[bear]

Not true, unless WHMCS has changed this over the past few months

July 2015 is the oldest version of the page linked to above in the wayback machine, and it's in there.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150702194856/http://docs.whmcs.com/Renewing_Support_and_Updates

I can go to any site I've purchased software from over the years (and there are quite a few) and download the latest available software to me, at any time, irregardless of 'update' status. I would simply not be able to download updated versions.

Same here, but not the case with WHMCS. If I had to guess, they tie something that states "is active" into the downloads function/page, and keep all available download files in one central place. No need for lots of versioning or checking what your last paid date was. If you're active, you have access, if not, should have planned ahead.

[twhiting9275]

Re-reading that, you're right. It is a underhanded practice to say the least, then again, I can't really say as I'm surprised.

Anything to force the customer to pony up more $$.

I could have sworn that was different, but not so much I guess.

[slim]

I cannot imagine running a business on WHMCS without having a valid renewing license? Its cheap.

[twhiting9275]

If you find it so cheap, I'm sure you'd have no problem spotting the OP the $$$ to renew their license.

 

It really isn't about 'cheap' or not, however. It's about getting access to what you paid for. As I mentioned earlier, standard practice in this industry (see vBulletin, XenForo, any other software development company) is to provide access to the download you paid for, even if you don't have 'support' enabled. The two are not exclusive, nor should they be tied together in any way.

 

Not everyone is going to throw out $100+ / yr for software that doesn't really do much for updates over the course of that period.

Yes, WHMCS does do some pretty good updates, but the OP is a perfect example of why one shouldn't automatically renew the license.

 

Last stable version? 6.3.1, released in April

License expired? June

For 4 months now, nothing, and I do mean nothing has been released since WHMCS, and that's ok. We're not likely to see another release until 7 becomes stable. We're not going to see that for at least 6 months, most likely another year..

 

So, what does the OP get for renewing their subscription?

Support, which is just painfully slow

Download, which they've already paid for

 

Throwing money away is never the way to make your business succeed. Never

[WHMCS Edward]

Last stable version? 6.3.1, released in April

License expired? June

For 4 months now, nothing, and I do mean nothing has been released since WHMCS

 

Version 6.3.1 was released on April 13th, and Version 7.0.0 on July 22nd. That's 3 months 9 days to deliver a version not just with PHP 7 support but also one of the most complex and most requested features to ever be requested.

 

In between that there was a live chat update as well.

 

another release until 7 becomes stable. We're not going to see that for at least 6 months, most likely another year..

 

Version 7 is anticipated to reach stable by the end of September. That's less than 2 months away.

 

So, what does the OP get for renewing their subscription?

They get access to the latest Version 6.3 today, Version 7 as-well if they wish to use the beta, Version 7 when it becomes stable and at least two more releases before the year of validity would expire. Plus access to technical support 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

 

Plus they are supporting the product which underpins and enables them to run a successful online business.

 

-Eddy

[twhiting9275]

Version 7 is anticipated to reach stable by the end of September. That's less than 2 months away.

Yeah, that's a bit ambitious , considering that it's just now entering beta.

 

 

They get access to the latest Version 6.3 today,

Which they've already paid for, and any other professional site gives them immediately, whether or not they have an active subscription (the latest version they paid for).

Version 7 as-well if they wish to use the beta

nobody's going to put beta software on a working site... So that's not really a "benefit" there at all

Version 7 when it becomes stable

Nobody said anything about not renewing when it comes out. That's irrelevant

Plus access to technical support 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Yeah, right... 24x7 . You mean delayed support that really isn't helpful.

 

Plus they are supporting the product which underpins and enables them to run a successful online business.

 

The product is supported by the initial purchase, not the upgrades. Nice try there though.

 

Again, nobody's saying that someone shouldn't update when versions are released. That's not the issue at all here. What is the issue is refusal to provide access to something that the customer has already paid for (and paid quite heftily, mind you). This is as unethical and underhanded as it gets.

[easyhosting]

nobody's going to put beta software on a working site... So that's not really a "benefit" there at all

 

 

The fact is that some people do use beta versions on working sites, you often see posts in the forums with people asking for help with issues and you find out they are using beta versions

[wsa]

The fact is that some people do use beta versions on working sites,

 

That true last night someone order a module and said not working with V7 that he use live and ask of refund. Then later I find out they a bug with v7. I dont understand why peoples use this as live site

[twhiting9275]

Well, yeah, just because people can doesn't mean they should do it. If you want to put your entire billing department at risk by running a 'beta' version of software, well, ya know.... Good luck .

[-M-]

Plus access to technical support 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

 

Let me be so friendly to correct this line, because it's clearly incorrect.

The correct line should be:

 

Plus access to "support roulette" 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Where you get detailed and useful answers like "Sorry, this is not possible.", "Please, create a forum thread." or "Please, make a feature request on the request page.

 

That sounds much more like reality.

[brian!]

Version 6.3.1 was released on April 13th, and Version 7.0.0 on July 22nd. That's 3 months 9 days to deliver a version not just with PHP 7 support but also one of the most complex and most requested features to ever be requested.

surely you can't count a first beta as an update - especially when it's not supposed to be used on a live production site.

 

Version 7 is anticipated to reach stable by the end of September. That's less than 2 months away.

mark the date down in the diary folks, and let's see how "stable" it is.

 

this might be a useful point to recall WHMCS' policy on updates - which I assumed hasn't changed since it's posting last October...

 

http://blog.whmcs.com/?t=106987

 

At WHMCS we use semantic versioning and perform three types of releases; major, minor, and maintenance releases:

• Major releases include core changes to the codebase and major new functionality which at times may break backwards compatibility.
  
• Minor releases introduce new behaviors and features, and can include schema changes and upstream dependency updates as well as introduce deprecation of functionality for future removal.
  
• Maintenance releases focus on bug fixes (i.e. places where the observed behavior does not match the intended behavior of the product). These comprise the majority of our releases and can be expected roughly every six to eight weeks, sometimes sooner after major upgrades.
  

These releases are done with you, the customer in mind. We strive to keep our product cutting edge by providing regular updates and we are working hard to release updates on a more frequent basis than in recent years.

now, perhaps my memory is playing tricks, but i'm sure there have been lots of bugs reported about v6.3.1 - certainly enough to warrant a maintenance release after nearly 4 months... however, if WHMCS want to hold on until v7, who are we to argue.

[twhiting9275]

There were a ton with 6.3.0 , hence the 6.3.1 update. I haven't (personally) run into any with 6.3.1 , however.

This brings us to another point though.

7.0 is not going to be 'stable'. It will be riddled with bugs, just like any major release is.

These bugs will be resolved in 7.0.1

[jack91]

I cannot believe running a business on WHMCS without having a valid renewing license? Its cheap.

[twhiting9275]

There's plenty of reasons to not have a renewing license.

Do you always just throw money away on useless garbage, irregardless of how 'cheap' it is?

The value of an owned license has gone down over the years, not up. Ironically, however, the cost of renewing said owned license has gone up by almost 100%

 

It used to be that if you had a problem, a professional logged in, solved the problem and told you what it was.

Now? No, no... You get a 'confirmation' that maybe there's a problem brushed off, with something like

 

I've opened up a case in our internal tracker.

I cannot confirm when this will be addressed, or if it will.

Keep an eye on our changelogs

 

Meanwhile, you wait 6-12 months for the next release, which may or may not (likely not, looking at history) resolve your issue.

 

 

It used to be that you'd actually get professional, courteous responses from staff who read through your ticket and knew what they were talking about in a quick and timely fashion. Now? Just rehashed nonsense, staff members repeating the same old, same old, not bothering to read tickets, just pretending that their answers are all knowing (when they're not).

 

It used to be that you'd get responses within a few hours. Now? 12 hours, minimum is the expected wait time, with wait times being way longer than 12 hours in most cases.

 

WHMCS has fallen into the lull that they're the best, and nobody can top them. The last time this happened was Modernbill, which they took the place of. Unless someone in charge over there gets their collective stuff together, 5 years from now, people will be asking 'WHMCS who?', just like they are with Modernbill.

 

Back on topic though...

Again, any other software vendor I go to that I do business with (and believe me, I do quite a bit of business online), same thing... I may not always be able to download the latest version of [insertsoftwarehere] but I can, in every single case, download the latest copy available to my license.

[ecayer]

Lets not stray away from what is important, this is not about the latest release or how cheap or expensive the renewal fees are.

 

If a customer pays for a specific version, they should always have access to download it. Upon till now I am still not able to download what i paid for.

 

WHMCS should follow industry standards and stop being dishonest.