Refund Request

[Matt28376]

Ethics in WHMCS?

Well I just found out that even though I cancelled my subscription 4mths ago, sent an email requesting to cancel, received a reply from a human (not an automatic reply) asking me to confirm, and then I sent an email confirming... I'm still being charged for WHMCS! I've brought this to WHMCS supports attention and they have told me that they can't refund the last 4mths and will only stop charging at the end of this current month even though I was able to provide them with proof of cancellation request and confirmation.

 

Wow

WHMCS obviously have no ethics. I’d love to charge my customers secretly aswell and then when they catch me out and show proof that they never should have paid for my services, I’d just throw it back at them and put my hands over my eyes and ears… but I would never do that.

 

Obviously I'm powerless and the money doesn't matter to me, its the trust and principle, so I just wanted to share my negitive experience with everyone in this and other communities. I'll update this post if this has only happened due to automatic processing and they realise their mistake and do come back and refund me as they should but I'd doubt it due the the frosty reception I've already received.

[Bubka3]

My money is on that this guy didn't cancel his PayPal subscription.

[disgruntled]

1 post? wow, now if this isnt a * in itself id be surprised

[WHMCS Liam]

Hi,

 

There is no match for your email address used on the forums on our system, so I'm unable to look at your account. But what I suspect happened is that you submitted a cancellation ticket and either we never got the confirmation, or you didn't cancel a PayPal subscription when advised. As you're probably aware, PayPal don't allow refunds more than 60 days after a transaction and so refunding all 4 months isn't possible as it seems one of our staff advised you, but if you genuinely did submit a cancellation request then we should certainly be able to refund 2 of them. Please get in touch again through your ticket so we can locate the account.

 

Liam

[easyhosting]

PayPal don't allow refunds more than 60 days after a transaction and so refunding all 4 months isn't possible

 

Yes Paypal have a limit to only allow refunds upto 60 days, so you can refund 2, but you could always use the send money option for the other 2, but this would incur paypal charges

[m8internet]

1 post? wow, now if this isnt a * in itself id be surprised

Yes, looks like another one post wonder, paid to post and provide negative comments

[bear]

Yes, looks like another one post wonder, paid to post and provide negative comments

An assumption of gargantuan proportions, I'd suggest. I'm all for defending a product I use, but that's fairly absurd.

[Roger]

About the original post. That's the problem with free speech. We have to hear the stupid stuff too...

[disgruntled]

Yes Paypal have a limit to only allow refunds upto 60 days, so you can refund 2, but you could always use the send money option for the other 2, but this would incur paypal charges

 

or you can use the REFUND option upto 6 months after a transaction and there will be no charge and all fees you paid will be refunded.

[mylove4life]

the real funny thing is.. the guy has never came back to say anything... 100% fake if you ask me..

[disgruntled]

the real funny thing is.. the guy has never came back to say anything... 100% fake if you ask me..

 

I dont disagree, i said that in my first response but regardless of fake or not liam has shown yet another flaw of WHMCS, whmcs is fast becoming a joke if you ask me.

 

the hacks, the breach and now their ethics are coming into call, oh and can i just say, i have at the hands of whmcs seen evidence of their non-refund policy, although at the time it wasnt an issue as i just asked them to credit my over payment to upgrades.

 

I bought the iphone addon and double paid, i had not realised this until some time later on when i saw that for some reason i had two iphone apps on my account. Did whmcs resolve this when it happened? no.

 

If one of my clients paid me double for an addon that was one time only payment and there was no reason for a second, i personally would see to it that they were informed of the fact, i would offer a credit to their account or a refund AT THEIR DISCRETION.

 

the fact that whmcs dont do this, dont track payments just makes me wonder what other "oversights" their are because honestly i fail to see how they can do it, and then make a claim that a charge back is fraud.

 

I had a paper delivered every day for 5 years, i stopped the service, do i still pay them, no, did i pay them after no.

 

maybe i should be chasing my parents for money, after all, they paid me pocket money for 18 years, they cant stop just like that, How very dare they!.

 

Disgusting behaviour from whmcs thats for sure.

[Bubka3]

I bought the iphone addon and double paid, i had not realized this until some time later on when i saw that for some reason i had two iphone apps on my account. Did whmcs resolve this when it happened? no.

1. So your mad at WHMCS for YOU clicking Pay two times?

 

If one of my clients paid me double for an addon that was one time only payment and there was no reason for a second, i personally would see to it that they were informed of the fact, i would offer a credit to their account or a refund AT THEIR DISCRETION.

2. That is you, however, this is not in WHMCS's policy. It is perfectly fair and many such as myself follow this. Why should I be inconvenienced to start refunding because you do not know how to operate a website? I got better things to do.

 

the fact that whmcs dont do this, dont track payments just makes me wonder what other "oversights" their are because honestly i fail to see how they can do it, and then make a claim that a charge back is fraud.

3. Doesn't track payments? How is it their fault that you paid twice? I am sure if you go on that invoice, you will see two transactions, so all tracked?

See above in bold.

This isn't just you disgruntled, but too many people think they are entitled to something because they made a mistake. You are not, and anyone who does refund you is just being nice.

[disgruntled]

See above in bold.

This isn't just you disgruntled, but too many people think they are entitled to something because they made a mistake. You are not, and anyone who does refund you is just being nice.

 

Your missing the point, the system can easily handle this sort of thing, it knows when to update an account after a payment, why would it not be able to know to alert the admin to a problem with an excess payment?

 

Now, if you follow the same "policy" im glad im not hosted with you, that sort of policy at best wrong, and at worst fraud. but more often a company will "be nice" and do the right thing and refund the over payment or credit it. at customer discretion. and if they dont they are a company i never want dealings with because in my honest and legitimate view, they are not honest and legitimate.

 

Oh and just so you know, i wasnt mad as you put it, i requested a refund they offered "credit" nothing to be mad about, now if it was the case of the original post, yes i would be mad, and with very good reason to be. and whmcs would know about it all too well.

[disgruntled]

with regards to this.

Why should I be inconvenienced to start refunding because you do not know how to operate a website? I got better things to do.

 

because your running an honest business and not in the habit of ripping off clients?

[WHMCS John]

This has certainly turned into an interesting debate but has gone off topic, so has been split into it's own thread: http://forum.whmcs.com/showthread.php?48287-Refund-Policies

[disgruntled]

This has certainly turned into an interesting debate but has gone off topic, so has been split into it's own thread: http://forum.whmcs.com/showthread.php?48287-Refund-Policies

 

thanks john, shall continue it there

[unused]

This is why WHMCS needs to cancel paypal subscriptions when a cancellation is processed.

 

It IS possible in the API, and you all know you deal with similar tickets month on out and tell people to cancel their subscriptions, it's not your responsibility, etc. So why doesn't WHMCS just cancel subscriptions automatically when the service is cancelled?

 

Are you happy handling this manually? You probably have a process in place to go through and clean up those subscriptions, don't you...

[Matt28376]

Hi,

 

There is no match for your email address used on the forums on our system, so I'm unable to look at your account. But what I suspect happened is that you submitted a cancellation ticket and either we never got the confirmation, or you didn't cancel a PayPal subscription when advised. As you're probably aware, PayPal don't allow refunds more than 60 days after a transaction and so refunding all 4 months isn't possible as it seems one of our staff advised you, but if you genuinely did submit a cancellation request then we should certainly be able to refund 2 of them. Please get in touch again through your ticket so we can locate the account.

 

Liam

 

Hi Liam

Sorry I've been on holidays and didn't realise how much people get upset and steal a thread if your away for 10 days lol.

I never got told that I needed to do anything with my paypal account until just the other day when I reported the issue to your support.

Its a shame because the reason I discovered we were still paying for whmcs is because I was looking again at using you guys as whmcs support had previously told me that you didn't provide hosting and that I'd need to host it on my own server. Since then I have found a hosting service which will host it for me.

My ticket ID with WHMCS where I reported the issue is 879411

 

Would be great if you could refund it and not hide behind paypal as though your hands are tied. As I'm sure you'd be able to see the account was never used. It all comes down to trust for me and even if you just gave a credit which I might never use if I choose to not end up using your services, but at least I know I wouldn't have avoided you due to the bad taste this experience has left me with.

 

I can understand people's view where you shouldn't be refunded if you don't know how to use technology but in this case it was simple. I requested a cancelation, cancellation was confirmed as long as I confirmed again which I did. WHMCS says they never got that confirmation... not my fault as I have shown the sent email history. If WHMCS insists on double checking that you really did mean to cancel, and don't hear a response then shouldn't you double check your own double check?

 

Anyway hopefully it really is cancelled now and I'm going to make sure its cancelled on paypal aswell now since there could be another double check email from WHMCS which never arrived in my inbox...

[Matt28376]

BTW I've checked and I was paying by credit card and not paypal which is why I wasn't able to cancel the payments unless I reported WHMCS as fraud which I could still do since I can provide the credit card company with emails of me requesting cancelation, whmcs acknoledging my request and asking for confirmation, and my email confirming.

[disgruntled]

i dont think the intention was to steal your thunder. the debate simply escalated into a debate about refunds, obviously related to your post but not in the end enough to leave it here, it became very indepth and covered refund policies, as you will see in the split topic.

[Matt28376]

i dont think the intention was to steal your thunder. the debate simply escalated into a debate about refunds, obviously related to your post but not in the end enough to leave it here, it became very indepth and covered refund policies, as you will see in the split topic.

 

Thanks, I did have a long read of the other thread. It makes me realise why people are so surprised about how helpful we still are if they leave us. I do get tired with the worlds attitude these days with the "what's in it for me" mind set.

 

Doesn't look like WHMCS are going to credit me the time they billed me for, even though I've proven to them that I requested to cancel the account, and they can see that I never even used it, and because I wasn't using paypal I was unable to cancel it manually myself...I think they are using the ignore him and he'll go away tactic...

[Matt]

Matthew, you were replied to 2 days ago via the ticket so you haven't been ignored. And at that time, I can see our staff gave you a full 3 month credit - the entire time you've had a license - since you said you were looking to carry on using WHMCS. So your license is active and you do already have a credit for the full amount you were looking for.

 

But just to re-iterate the original cause, you opened a ticket asking to cancel @ 24/03/2012 05:55. You were replied to @ 24/03/2012 06:20 checking if there was anything we could do to help you stay, or to confirm you wanted to cancel, but the ticket never got a response and so that's why the cancellation wasn't processed. We clearly wouldn't charge anyone post cancellation.

 

Matt

[VicToMeyeZR]

Clearly another person that knows nothing about running a business. How are you going to blame WHMCS on this one, when you clearly don't even know how to manage a billing system yourself? Are you saying that if you never got a confirmation from your clients on a cancel, then that would have been your fault? That's what your saying to WHMCS.

I see this crap all the time. People don't follow through on their cancellations, or Paypal subscriptions, but yet, that is some how my fault...

If your really going to manage a system using WHMCS, your going to be dealing with people just like you... Might be a good idea to look in the mirror before you do.

[Matt28376]

Matthew, you were replied to 2 days ago via the ticket so you haven't been ignored. And at that time, I can see our staff gave you a full 3 month credit - the entire time you've had a license - since you said you were looking to carry on using WHMCS. So your license is active and you do already have a credit for the full amount you were looking for.

 

But just to re-iterate the original cause, you opened a ticket asking to cancel @ 24/03/2012 05:55. You were replied to @ 24/03/2012 06:20 checking if there was anything we could do to help you stay, or to confirm you wanted to cancel, but the ticket never got a response and so that's why the cancellation wasn't processed. We clearly wouldn't charge anyone post cancellation.

 

Matt

 

Hi Matt

Great to hear that as I hadn't seen the email yet about the credit which is probably because the last 48hrs have been the weekend here. But great to see this could be resolved once brought out in the open on the forums.

Both of us being stubborn I'm sure we'll never know if my email confirming to cancel the account (which I have provided the digital proof of to you) was actually received by you and missed or maybe picked up as spam and actually never read. I don't want to sound like a lecture and standing on a soap box as we are both a little a fault. I should have made sure you did actually stop charging and you should have questioned why after I told you your product was no good for me and wanted to cancel, that I suddenly didn't want to cancel even though you hadn't helped me, as you had only asked me to confirm that I wanted to cancel. Both of us have alot of work load human/computer error happens, I just wish I didn't need to try so hard to get a simple outcome like this. Obviously its not about the money which I think is less than $60.

I know your opinon is that you don't agree so I thankyou for still not taking the hard line as others on this forum have expressed they would for their customers and say that online systems and procedures are always right and ignore the customer as they must have done something wrong and its not worth your time to look into and do the admin to reverse things.

 

Matt

[Matt28376]

Clearly another person that knows nothing about running a business. How are you going to blame WHMCS on this one, when you clearly don't even know how to manage a billing system yourself? Are you saying that if you never got a confirmation from your clients on a cancel, then that would have been your fault? That's what your saying to WHMCS.

I see this crap all the time. People don't follow through on their cancellations, or Paypal subscriptions, but yet, that is some how my fault...

If your really going to manage a system using WHMCS, your going to be dealing with people just like you... Might be a good idea to look in the mirror before you do.

 

Clearly another person who thinks computers and systems can never fail you. I listen to my customers, as does WHMCS by the result that has occured. If I asked a customer to confirm that they really meant it when they said they wanted to cancel and I didn't get a reply, then yes I feel it would be my fault for not following it up. When helping customers with problems, we ask them questions and if they don't reply we follow them up, otherwise its our fault that the issue is not resolved. There does come a point when you've sent 5 emails and made 4 phone calls and still can't get in contact with them, but at that point I send them an email letting them know I've tried and they can reopen the issue if they need to. I have no problems with refunding a customer even if they have done something stupid, as long as I can see they haven't actually taken advantage of me (which in this case WHMCS can see the product was never used and all cancellation processes were followed but for whatever reason the last email didn't reach them). Hopefully the internet isn't the start of business ethics going out the window, we live in a human world, or at least I do... it creates headaches...