Anyone Downgrade to 5.2.12 ?

[djajay80]

Did it work?

How can I get the full install files for 5.2.12 if it did?

 

When I login to the website it wont let me download FULL 5.2.12 (only the upgrade)

[openmind]

Why on earth would you want to download to highly insecure version??

[ikasp]

Why on earth would you want to download to highly insecure version??

 

PDF-Batch-does-not-work-with-5-2-13 is a good reason for many. For us it is definitly a stopper to go with 5213.

 

And, "highly insecure version", were did you get that from? Is it highly secure with 5213?

[Infopro]

I would think that if you were on 5.2.12 and upgraded, but then decided to go back to 5.2.12, all you'd need to do is restore your DB and files from the backup you took just prior to updating.

 

You did backup first of course, right?

[brian!]

possibly another solution rather than downgrading, assuming you have a license direct from WHMCS, might be get a free developer's license from WHMCS - you could then install the older version you want without disrupting your live site... import your current db, then run your export.

 

I would guess you have to open a ticket with support to get hold on a full download on a previous release - older versions are not available when I log into the client area either.

[djajay80]

I would think that if you were on 5.2.12 and upgraded, but then decided to go back to 5.2.12, all you'd need to do is restore your DB and files from the backup you took just prior to updating.

 

You did backup first of course, right?

 

I do have a prev backup unfortunately it was from days ago. We do 1,000s of transactions in a short time. I cant loss all that data.

[Infopro]

I cant loss all that data.

 

I agree. That's why a fresh backup just before any sort of changes to your website is very, very important. It takes only a few minutes to backup a full account. It takes even less time to backup a single database and directory of files.

 

With such a busy site, you should be doing daily backups as well.

[djajay80]

your missing the point. YES I have a 5.2.12 database backup but since we did the update days ago Im asking did the 5.2.13 change how it access the database that we cant just reinstall 5.2.12 and keep going. Otherwise going back to a 3day old 5.2.12 database I loss too much info.

[gerrybakker]

I downgraded to 5.2.12 in self defense - I would rather risk a hack than have my business put out of business because of all the bugs in 5.2.13 that brought my business to a halt. To downgrade I logged into phpmyadmin and edited the version field in "tblconfig" to say 5.2.12 and did a complete upload of 5.2.12 - then I went to the admin screen which told me to delete the install folder - you have to do it in that sequence or it will fail - don't delete the install folder first. I did this for this downgrade because it didn't involve any database changes between 5.2.12 and 5.2.13.

 

Doing a backup and restore is quite unpractical in the real world because a lot of transactions are coming in much quicker than WHMCS seems to realize - many of us don't run hobby sized businesses. Doing a backup before an upgrade and restoring that backup after 2 frustrating days of discovery about broken features is not practical - it ignores $1000's of dollars in missing transactions. Quality control has definitely dropped through the floor since cPanel got involved directly. This is still the best product out there and I thoroughly respect Matt for his efforts but the cPanel distraction has not been good for WHMCS customers/users.

[djajay80]

I downgraded to 5.2.12 in self defense - I would rather risk a hack than have my business put out of business because of all the bugs in 5.2.13 that brought my business to a halt. To downgrade I logged into phpmyadmin and edited the version field in "tblconfig" to say 5.2.12 and did a complete upload of 5.2.12 - then I went to the admin screen which told me to delete the install folder - you have to do it in that sequence or it will fail - don't delete the install folder first. I did this for this downgrade because it didn't involve any database changes between 5.2.12 and 5.2.13.

 

Doing a backup and restore is quite unpractical in the real world because a lot of transactions are coming in much quicker than WHMCS seems to realize - many of us don't run hobby sized businesses. Doing a backup before an upgrade and restoring that backup after 2 frustrating days of discovery about broken features is not practical - it ignores $1000's of dollars in missing transactions. Quality control has definitely dropped through the floor since cPanel got involved directly. This is still the best product out there and I thoroughly respect Matt for his efforts but the cPanel distraction has not been good for WHMCS customers/users.

 

Where did you get the 5.2.12 Full Install? The website wont let me download any complete installs except for some old 5.2.8 or somthing?

[Infopro]

your missing the point.

...

 

Nope, I'm not missing the point at all. I understand the exact point, very well, that's why my suggestions. Those suggestions don't help you now, but they should, next time.

 

With such busy sites as you both have, if it was me, I would never update my production site until I had tested it on my dev site first. And if it broke my dev site and I couldn't fix it, I'd open a ticket. I'm still in business, in the meantime, on my production site.

 

Doing a backup and restore is quite unpractical in the real world...

 

Jumping off a roof without a parachute is impractical. Backing up any type of website before you upgrade it, especially a company website using such advanced software as WHMCS, is not only practical, it's sensible, prudent even.

 

Backing up a dev site so you can restore it, same thing. You have a dev site so you can break it trying things, you need to be able to roll back quickly when you do.

 

I'm sorry you guys ran into problems, you really should open a ticket about it right away.

 

 

...2 frustrating days of discovery about broken features is not practical - it ignores $1000's of dollars in missing transactions. Quality control has definitely dropped through the floor since cPanel got involved directly. This is still the best product out there and I thoroughly respect Matt for his efforts but the cPanel distraction has not been good for WHMCS customers/users.

 

If I was doing (or losing) 1000's of dollars of transactions in 2 days, I would surely be testing any software that might interrupt that, first, before just uploading the files and crossing my fingers.

 

Instead, you're here, posting on the forums.

 

 

Don't attempt to downgrade, contact WHMCS Technical Support to help get you sorted.

[slim]

I think the point is, its a patch, he shouldnt need to goto the trouble of setting up a dev server and then do days of testing. .This is what he pays WHMCS to do.

[Infopro]

I think the point is, its a patch, he shouldnt need to goto the trouble of setting up a dev server and then do days of testing. .This is what he pays WHMCS to do.

 

As I said, I understand the point, but thank you for trying to clarify a bit more. Let me give it a go as well: He most certainly should be testing any changes to his site, and so should you.

 

There is no way for WHMCS to know what changes you've made to your site when they make changes to the software. In an effort to keep your site, and your business online 100% of the time, you should be checking any changes to the software you use, on your dev site, first.

 

 

Stage sites and good, current backups are 2 of your most important tools if 100% uptime (of your own site), matters to you.

 

 

You shouldn't need to go to the trouble of rebutting that, it is what it is.

[whocares64]

+1

I think the point is, its a patch, he shouldnt need to goto the trouble of setting up a dev server and then do days of testing. .This is what he pays WHMCS to do.

 

Did a full restore of both files and db to 5.2.12 and 5.2.10. Version still known to WHMCS as 5.2.13, all my various issues still present after restores. As a disclaimer I have a wide variety of issues introduced by 5.2.13 so there may be something else amiss. However unless I have overlooked something major there is a serious issue that my complete deletions and restoration from backup's displayed 5.2.13 as the version number.

[ikasp]

As I said, I understand the point, but thank you for trying to clarify a bit more. Let me give it a go as well: He most certainly should be testing any changes to his site, and so should you.

 

There is no way for WHMCS to know what changes you've made to your site when they make changes to the software. In an effort to keep your site, and your business online 100% of the time, you should be checking any changes to the software you use, on your dev site, first.

 

 

Stage sites and good, current backups are 2 of your most important tools if 100% uptime (of your own site), matters to you.

 

 

You shouldn't need to go to the trouble of rebutting that, it is what it is.

 

I have to say I have a hard time to understand your attitude, however it does explain a lot.

 

This 5212 to 5213 was a security update. I would assume an urgent one to install. Why should I expect it to break generic things like batch pdf generation (as an example)?

 

I do agree with you that with functional upgrades it should be tested in dev environment, but for security updates, I do not think that should be necessary. I would assume your quality assurance process should catch all issues.

 

We have however learned the hard way we cant rely on your quality assurance and hence use this forum and wht for quality assurance before we install any security patches.

Edited November 26, 2013 by ikasp

[openmind]

PDF-Batch-does-not-work-with-5-2-13 is a good reason for many. For us it is definitly a stopper to go with 5213.

 

And, "highly insecure version", were did you get that from? Is it highly secure with 5213?

Considerably more so than .12. Just don't be surprised if you get hacked.

 

We are running absolutely fine with .13 with but then of course we tested the patch before applying it to our live install...

[Infopro]

I have to say I have a hard time to understand your attitude, however it does explain a lot.

 

Please clarify.

 

This 5212 to 5213 was a security update. I would assume an urgent one to install. Why should I expect it to break generic things like batch pdf generation (as an example)?

 

You can assume any update is important and you shouldn't expect it to be broken, like pdf generation for example.

 

I agree with you 100%.

 

But, if you're like the other poster earlier in this thread, making 1000's a day in transactions, you should also assume that testing ANY updates or patches, is a smart thing to do to keep that sort of business coming in, every day, no matter what. Things happen, it's software we're talking about with millions of lines of code in it.

 

That's not attitude, that's common sense.

 

I do agree with you that with functional upgrades it should be tested in dev environment, but for security updates, I do not think that should be necessary.

 

You assume incorrectly here.

 

Again, if your income depends on your WHMCS installation being up and accessible, test everything first. At the end of the day, the only one that can protect your site from going offline due to a bad update, is you.

 

I would assume your quality assurance process should catch all issues.

 

You and I both can assume here that the WHMCS QA team does their very best. WHMCS is the most popular billing software available for a reason.

 

We have however learned the hard way we cant rely on your quality assurance and hence use this forum and wht for quality assurance before we install any security patches.

 

This is the part that bugs me the most about your post (and others similar on these forums and WHT), and is why I'm even participating in this thread.

 

Your site was working, you were making 1000's a day in revenue, and then you uploaded incorrect files, or have customizations that clash with the updates, or have installed mods that are not secure or working exactly as they should any longer with the core WHMCS product, or failed to clear your cache, or some other issue from a long list or probable, fixable issues, and when your site breaks, it's not your fault that you're losing 1000's a day in business, all of a sudden, it's WHMCS's fault for bad code, poor QA testing, the cPanel deal, or even that mean WHMCS forums moderator, (who the heck does that guy think he is anyway?) that's responsible for your woes.

 

So what do you do next? You come here, or go over there to WHT and rant about all the money you're losing. Some complaining they want compensation for their troubles, some complaining they want my head chopped off, just because of the tone in my posts!

 

I assume that's what this comment is on about:

I have to say I have a hard time to understand your attitude, however it does explain a lot.

 

You think you're reading attitude it seems to me, but you've mistaken my concern for the well being of your business, for attitude. This isn't attitude at all, it a big loud WTH?

 

In the past year that I've been moderating these forums, a very tumultuous year here to be sure, these same sorts of problems has come up over, and over, and over again.

 

No one ever says what I'm saying to you here. It needs to be said. Get mad at me all you like about it, I'm fine with that. Frankly though, I'd much rather you took better precautions and tested any updates and kept your business online and available, 24/7/365, than go to the trouble getting mad at me for pointing out what should be as obvious as the nose on your face.

 

Every change I have made on this WHMCS forum in the past year, was done on a stage forum, first. Even the smallest of changes, like that twitter link under my avatar for example. The same can be said for the WHMCS site. The same can be said for the cPanel forums and the cPanel main site as well.

 

All of these sites have stages that we test things on first, before going live with them.

 

Why? So that business on all these sites can continue uninterrupted, of course.

 

It's common practice, it's smart, and it seems to me that there are MANY WHMCS users on these forums, that have never thought they needed to test, like you yourself have stated clearly here.

 

I don't care if you don't like me, but step back a moment and read close what I'm saying. I'm not attacking you or anyone else. I'm telling you that you need to test, and you need current backups, and you need to have a plan in place to roll back your stage and/or your live site in a moments notice, ALWAYS.

 

Without these, you stand to lose 1000's a day in transactions. That's a fact, just ask the guy who posted above you in this thread.

[openmind]

^^should be made a sticky^^

[epretorious]

We are running absolutely fine with .13 with but then of course we tested the patch before applying it to our live install...

 

Again, if your income depends on your WHMCS installation being up and accessible, test everything first. At the end of the day, the only one that can protect your site from going offline due to a bad update, is you.

 

I'm just curious: How do you recommend one tests WHMCS? e.g., Is there some sort of automated test suite or do you just click-around a bunch [Create test accounts, manually create orders, etc]?

Edited November 26, 2013 by epretorious

[Blueberry3.14]

Again, if your income depends on your WHMCS installation being up and accessible, test everything first. At the end of the day, the only one that can protect your site from going offline due to a bad update, is you.

 

This.

 

I would assume your quality assurance process should catch all issues.

 

You mean like Microsoft does? Or how about Adobe? Or Mozilla? How many updates/security patches have there been with just those 3 companies over the years? I remember one Vista update that completed HOSED Internet Explorer. Not a big deal for me since I only use it for testing' date=' but still. If it can happen with Microsoft, what makes you think it can't happen with WHMCS?

 

Things happen with updates and patches. Cripes, how many times has a cPanel update f00bared a server? I've been with cPanel since 2003, and luckily in the last few years that's become a rarity, but I can remember a time when if you had automatic overnight updates on, you were flirting with waking up to a disaster.

 

Infopro can be a little gruff....but IMO he's being anything but here. He's actually giving you some very valuable information, which will possibly save your butt in the future, *if* you follow it.

 

[b']The importance of proper testing (by you, in your environment) and backups can't be overstated.[/b] Do a complete backup before any changes to WHMCS. As Inforpro suggested, a dev/staging install is an excellent idea, and WHMCS will even give you one for free. And even if they didn't, if you're making $1,000's a day, you could spring for another $13.95-18.95 a month.

 

Put another way: your business depends on you having a working computer, right? So I'll bet you have more than one, just in case of hardware failure or an aforementioned Microsoft update f00bar. I have 3 at any given time, with access to more if I need them, just for that reason, AND with redundant external backups to external services. Simply apply that same concept to your billing/support software. Because no matter how good any company's Q&A is, things are going to happen.

 

And just for some perspective: I'm not saying any of this as one of the rapid WHMCS fanb0is. I'm not even sure I'm going to stick with WHMCS myself. But the suggestions Infopro has made to you as well as my own suggestions are standard policies that should be followed using any software, if you want to stay in business in this industry.

 

^^should be made a sticky^^

 

Amen.

[openmind]

I'm just curious: How do you recommend one tests WHMCS? e.g., Is there some sort of automated test suite or do you just click-around a bunch [Create test accounts, manually create orders, etc]?

We have a separate server with WHMCS installed using a dev license. This server runs an exact mirror of the WHMCS files and the database is synced every 24 hours. We then have test accounts at eNom, Nominet and our payment gateway as well as a cPanel license for creating dummy domains.

 

Finally we have a procedure book that runs through about 10 different tests including dummy registrations, setting up accounts, invoicing tasks etc that we run though for all the business critical tasks.

 

The whole process of testing and then applying a patch or upgrade assuming no problems takes about 30 minutes. It catches the vast majority of problems and certainly anything that would make us grind to a halt.

[Infopro]

I'm just curious: How do you recommend one tests WHMCS? e.g., Is there some sort of automated test suite or do you just click-around a bunch [Create test accounts, manually create orders, etc]?

 

This is an important question. It's been posted before in these sorts of threads when someone mentions testing updates/patches on a dev install as the reason why they cannot, should not, have to test first.

 

There are several things you can test quick and easy:

 

Many users uploaded patches for two different versions of WHMCS that were recently released. Had they done that on a stage site first, and then checked the site, they'd see that the site is broke.

Production site is still up and making money in the meantime. (roll back the dev site and go again)

 

In other updates, template changes were made. User has custom templates. User uploads the full update package to update as required and overwrote his custom templates. Had the user done that on a stage site first, and then checked the site, they'd see that the site is broke. There's been changes made to templates that user will need to make to those custom templates.

Production site is still up and making money in the meantime. (roll back the dev and go again)

 

In other updates still, core functionality may have have been changed in the WHMCS product that conflicts with some addon the user has installed. User uploads the full update package to update as required. Had the user done that on a stage site first, and then checked the site's basic functionality to find it broken, his production site is still, up and making money, in the meantime. (roll back the dev and go again)

 

The point here is clear I think, you might not think to check if PDF batching works or not:

http://forums.whmcs.com/showthread.php?81946-PDF-Batch-does-not-work-with-5-2-13

 

But, PDF batching is not a show stopper that breaks your site and puts you out of business.

 

Uploading multiple patches, mistakenly overwriting your custom templates, having out of date addons that conflict with core WHMCS functionality, might though.

 

Instead of just uploading all files to a live site in a rush and breaking it as many seem to do for some reason, upload the updates to the dev site and see if it breaks that, first. If and when you find something broken, then you go look for a fix.

 

All the while, the production site is still up, and making money.

[Infopro]

...

Infopro can be a little gruff...

 

I strongly disagree with this comment.

[Blueberry3.14]

I strongly disagree with this comment.

 

LMAO! Of course you do.....

[kobus4u]

Version 5.2.13 and version 5.2.14 is a mistake! It's a disaster! User older versions! WHMCS does not seem bother fixing the errors of the new version. Our business is also at hold trying to fix all the new bugs and problems!!!! What the hell is going on??????