Would YOU buy open-source?

[Grizzlyware Josh]

All,

 

I get contacted by people on a regular basis asking me if I will release my source code to them... as a developer I don't really want to for piracy reasons, and to protect my framework I have developed myself.

 

Over the last few months, the number of people requesting open-source, un-encoded & commented code has rocketed.

 

I think this poll will be useful for not only myself, but for nearly all the developers here.

 

I plan to release a few of my existing modules as open source, but I really do not know how it will go... I've heard people release open-source, and then no one purchases licenses.

 

So, to the point. I have written 5 WHMCS Addon Modules now, and plan to write many more when my weeks become less hectic with custom coding work. My question to you is, would you buy open-source code, and at what cost?

 

This is a closed poll, and anonymous. Please answer honestly.

 

Thank you for your time!

 

Best Regards,

 

Josh Bonfield

Bonfield Digital Studios

www.b-digital.biz

[wsa]

I got the same question every day also

[LaceHost-Ishan]

We cannot put a standard price on unencoded code, but , yes it is needed.

 

1. To make custom modifications

2. To make sure it is secure

3. In case the developer shuts shop or abandons that project.

[othellotech]

My question to you is, would you buy open-source code, and at what cost?

We would only buy an addon it if it came with the source code.

[bear]

Same as othellotech, with the exception of it having been coded by WHMCS themselves, as I already entrust my billing to them. Simply to much risk involved.

[ckh]

Depends on the person selling it and my feel for them, based on how long they've been here in the forum, the number of their posts here and my gut feelings on the person.

 

If Bear or othellotech were selling an encoded mod that I wanted, I'd probably get it from them. Someone who comes into the forum and has 10 posts selling an encoded mod and their site has been up for 1 month, well that's another matter.

 

Maybe something that Matt could do is have a code repository here. People that want to vend their mods here have to provide the source to Matt, which could be as simple as attaching the source to a ticket, but could certainly be another solution. Maybe give Bear access to it as a Moderator. If the person drops out of sight and doesn't respond to forum posts and Matt/Bear can't reach via email within a certain time period, the code is released to the people that purchased the mod. That way people that provide mods and people that purchase them can both be protected.

 

Just a thought that popped into my head...

[bear]

I appreciate the vote of confidence Chris, but I'm only a forum moderator and have nothing at all to do with WHMCS the company apart from that. If something like that were to happen, it would be all Matt and co.

[interfasys]

I would not buy Open Source code, but I would buy support for Open Source code or I would pay extra to have access to proprietary source code so that I could audit it and make modifications to it.

 

The advantage of using and Open Source license would be to get back all the modifications that various users have made.

[wildman]

Apologies, mis-understood the topic. No I would not pay extra as I would not buy at all if it was not open source. You should make a line of products that are already open source and then yes id pay for it.

Edited March 23, 2011 by wildman

[Grizzlyware Josh]

Ok, so how about a product addon for all of my modules either on order, or after sale:

 

One off fee including: Full unencrypted, indented (formatted) & commented code...? This would be sent to you after order approval, does that sound reasonable?

[interfasys]

That could be an option and there is no need to make it open source (but then you wouldn't get any mods back ).

People wanting to audit the code or to modify it would be happy and people that don't care would get your addons for cheaper.

[SilverNodashi]

so if no one wants to pay for the developers work, but expects him to hand it over to them on a golden platter, how would he be able to put food on the table at night, to eat and get strength the next morning to code more?

[interfasys]

so if no one wants to pay for the developers work, but expects him to hand it over to them on a golden platter, how would he be able to put food on the table at night, to eat and get strength the next morning to code more?

I suggest you read some articles on how to make a living with Open Source software. It's not about the lines of code, it's about the service you provide. Red Hat employees don't live under a bridge .

[SilverNodashi]

I know very well how FOSS works

 

But, what I'm getting at is that everyone expects the poor developer to simply give them the code, unencrypted (re-phrase, protected) and with no guarantee that they won't redistribute the code (yes, I know what GPL, Apache and the other licenses say, but let's be honest how many people really give contributions towards a developers time?) and no give anything back for his time / effort / knowledge?

 

 

And then, how can you trust one person (in this example Matt / John / WHMCS devs) but not another? Isn't that a bit two-faced? Surely if one person(s) / company can produce a good product, encode it and say on their website they won't steal you data or clients, then another can do the same?

 

 

I'm looking at the developer's side of things here, probably cause I run a company and need to pay my staff for their labor. If my company doesn't make money, somehow, then I can't pay my staff. And if I can't pay my staff, the company will go down. If the company goes down, the clients who enjoyed all the freebies will loose what they had. True, one can charge for support, but realistically if you have all the code, why would you need to pay the original developer to fixup something?

[interfasys]

 

I agree that providing the code for free is a risk, but it does have some advantages like the possibility of using free tools like github to manage that side of things, getting feedback, patches, detailed bug reports, etc. It can also make an addon very popular and thus should increase the demand for paid support.

 

I also agree that code contributions don't happen that often, but you do see patches here and there. It's usually up to the maintainer to include contributions in the main code and he may not always be willing to do so because of differences in the long term objectives per example.

 

And then, how can you trust one person (in this example Matt / John / WHMCS devs) but not another? Isn't that a bit two-faced? Surely if one person(s) / company can produce a good product, encode it and say on their website they won't steal you data or clients, then another can do the same?

Yes, but who do you trust more? One company that has been in business for a few years and that has a few thousand customers or somebody that hasn't even registered one, lives in a different country, with different laws and that has obfuscated the whois details of his domain?

 

Regarding support, people having in-house developers may not need to pay for it, but most smaller shops wanting to ensure they get a reliable addon, in order to grow their business, will probably pay for it.

 

Yes, there will be lots of people that will just download and use the addon without even saying thanks, but I'm pretty sure that most of the people that are buying addons would still buy them if the source code was included, assuming that it adds value to the overall hosting management experience and that support is reliable.

 

The developer could also delay the release of the source code, making it available first to paying customers, as an incentive. There are lots of models and many examples of companies being successful at selling support for open source code.

[SilverNodashi]

I live in South Africa ( I presume you're in America?), does that make me a criminal cause our laws are different than yours?

Does the fact that I enabled privacy protection on my domain, to counter-act domain theft make me a criminal?

Am I not allowed to setup a new domain, and new website specifically for this particular product / list of products that I want to sell? Even though I've been in this business for 14+ years now?

 

I can think of 6 people out of thousands, in the last 2 years who has downloaded some of the free scripts that I personally put on the web, who bothered to thank me. 1 guy actually phoned me. Just one.

 

How much money do you think I made off those scripts? $0

How much money do you think I invested in those scripts? Do the math, a domain costs (rounded off) $10 per year, hosting cost another say $10 per year. True, I already had the server space, so it didn't really cost me anything.

But, I took some time to write them - time which I could have used consulting to someone else and made money. But, in my case I get a salary from my company and if / when I have free time could do something like this.

 

 

Many startup dev's don't have the luxury. So who are we to judge those devs and demand all the source code for free? Surely it's their time and effort, and their decision to make?

[interfasys]

I live in South Africa ( I presume you're in America?), does that make me a criminal cause our laws are different than yours?

Does the fact that I enabled privacy protection on my domain, to counter-act domain theft make me a criminal?

Am I not allowed to setup a new domain, and new website specifically for this particular product / list of products that I want to sell? Even though I've been in this business for 14+ years now?

(Just a quick note, I didn't do any research on you or anybody else, I was just trying to give an extreme example, just to illustrate a point. My business is located in Switzerland. It's usually more difficult and costly to legally fight a company that is outside of the EU.)

 

As a dev, it's not always easy to prove a track record, but people do it all the time. As a company, it's easier and if it's new, then I find it normal for people to be suspicious. Just like it will take time for you to get a decent credit rating, trust online will have to be earned.

 

I'll admit that I haven't thanked all the people that have provided me with "free" software, but there are other ways to prove it, like by registering to the forum, sending bug reports, etc.

 

How much money would you have made if you had sold those scripts? I'm betting it would be near that $0, unless you had a clear marketing strategy, in which case, you could have applied it to those scripts as well.

Let's say you've developed a script for yourself. Which is better? Leaving it in a locked drawer or releasing it so that it can help other people solve the same problem?

The other approach is to develop something for a client and to convince him to release the code, so that others can benefit. That way you'll get paid for your efforts.

 

Most addons on here fill a need that has been formulated one way or another by a user. WHMCS didn't want to add it and somebody saw an opportunity to make money. Once the demand has lowered, a lot of devs move on to something else or leave the scene, thus creating a problem for some people that bought closed source addons. Another thread discussed ways to mitigate that problem without releasing the code upfront and I think that's great.

 

I don't think there is a right or wrong way of selling addons. Each company/dev will have to decide whether it's more profitable for them to sell encrypted scripts or not. I'm sure custom solutions are worked out when someone needs a hundred licenses, but insists on having the source code and it's exactly what this poll is about: Would people be willing to pay to have access to the source code.

[SilverNodashi]

(Just a quick note, I didn't do any research on you or anybody else, I was just trying to give an extreme example, just to illustrate a point. My business is located in Switzerland. It's usually more difficult and costly to legally fight a company that is outside of the EU.)

 

Apologies for me assuming you're in USA

 

In South Africa it's completely impossible to legally fight any international company.

 

How much money would you have made if you had sold those scripts? I'm betting it would be near that $0, unless you had a clear marketing strategy, in which case, you could have applied it to those scripts as well.

I actually make some decent money of some other, encrypted & paid-for-scripts which I also released. Some of them sell about 15 or so a month.

 

Let's say you've developed a script for yourself. Which is better? Leaving it in a locked drawer or releasing it so that it can help other people solve the same problem?

The other approach is to develop something for a client and to convince him to release the code, so that others can benefit. That way you'll get paid for your efforts.

 

I actually wrote a piece of software for a rural medical practice using PHP + MySQL and it runs on a Linux server in their office. They paid me for the time it took to develop the application but it's completely open source so they could do with the code whatever they wanted. While it paid for my time then, I've never heard from them again so in the long run I loose out.

 

Again, in my case it doesn't matter much, but what about the guys who solely depend on this income to stay alive?

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. And I'm not targeting anyone specific, just debating

[interfasys]

I actually make some decent money of some other, encrypted & paid-for-scripts which I also released. Some of them sell about 15 or so a month.

Are we comparing strawberries and lychees here or did you actually market exactly the same way two products, offering a similar level of functionality? I often find that people put an open source script online with some contact details and with a paypal link as an after-thought and don't get the feedback they were expecting, but when it comes to actually selling a product, they will actually invest time and money in it.

 

While it paid for my time then, I've never heard from them again so in the long run I loose out.

Did you approach other businesses with the same needs?

 

Having said all that, from my point of view, if you want to survive as an open source dev, you have to sell support contracts or custom dev work to larger companies if you intend on leaving your full time job.

I still think that addons devs who feel the need to encrypt their work should add an option to give access to the source code.

[SilverNodashi]

Are we comparing strawberries and lychees here or did you actually market exactly the same way two products, offering a similar level of functionality? I often find that people put an open source script online with some contact details and with a paypal link as an after-thought and don't get the feedback they were expecting, but when it comes to actually selling a product, they will actually invest time and money in it.

 

 

 

Both products are in a WHMCS so I can see who many people signup to download them. Both are listed on the same website and have the same "marketing force" behind them. There's no difference between either of them.

 

The free one has about 3 times more downloads than the paid one. The paid one has had quite some support issues (due to it being encrypted with SourceGuardian, which many people don't know) and quite a few requests for other similar scripts to be developed.

 

I spoke to a new client recently, who happened to have downloaded a free script a while ago and was surprised to hear that I actually developed it, which tells me he uses it but never really put any extra thought into where it came from.

[interfasys]

Thanks for sharing your experience

[linuxman]

Ok , is good things , opensource code , I not problem to pay if I have the good and quick support and if the modules is work ok, why not pay for work , is so simple .

Yes some times is very hard if code is encrypted to make changes but this is choose is for every developer how him provide and sell his work.

I think if the code not encrypted is ok and the developer can sell the good support for this product.

You can see Joomla modules+components like example , not allow encrypted modules or components and who developing the modules or components can sell it with support or just give it free but sell only support.

[Grizzlyware Josh]

Thank you for the comments I am starting to roll out my modules in an open-source format. Please see here: http://b-digital.biz/whmcs-addons-modules.html

 

I will see how it goes. Thank you again, everyone!

[ckh]

Actually, open source wouldn't be the correct term to use. Open source is free. A better term to use would be unencrypted.

[Grizzlyware Josh]

This is a tough area for a developer: Open source vs. source-available on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software#Open_source_vs._source-available

 

The term is widely known, compared to "source-available". I agree with you though.