dswp Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Our home insurer has advised against me working at home - says we will void our home insurance AND that no insurance will insure my business as it is on the web - these days that is a lot of liability, blah, blah, blah. Anyway - what on earth do you do for your home insurance? (If you work from home?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrat Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Which country applies? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHMCS Support Manager WHMCS John Posted July 11, 2009 WHMCS Support Manager Share Posted July 11, 2009 Are you using your home address as the registered address for the business? That can cause issues, but I've never had problems with simply working from home. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyhosting Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Our home insurer has advised against me working at home - says we will void our home insurance AND that no insurance will insure my business as it is on the web - these days that is a lot of liability, blah, blah, blah. Anyway - what on earth do you do for your home insurance? (If you work from home?) Depends which country, but in the UK most mainstream insurance companies will offer an additional work from home cover ontop of your main home insurance. High Street banks also offer work from home insurance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinpa1969 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 we work from home and Insurance is not a problem, we actually have an add on to the policy to cover the computer equipment but its still on the home owners.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsign Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 we actually have an add on to the policy to cover the computer equipment but its still on the home owners.... Don't forget to add the servers onto it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyhosting Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I also run an offline business, trading at summer fairs/country shows etc and use a market insurance, which i asked about insurance for an online hosting business, as its hosting you are selling physical items, so all you need is cover for computer equipment, which is usually covered by household insurance, but all i did was have my computer equip added to my business insurance as i also use this to write letters, do signs etc. but to do this the comp equip must me listed as a business asset and not a personal item 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswp Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 I'm in Canada, and my broker uses companies from the states and canada. They said that Ins. Companies in the states will CANCEL our home insurance for working on websites. It isn't the extra cost of items they are concerned about - we already added extra for the computer equipment, but the liability. That if I screw up a website, and the business comes after me, our HOME insurance is obligated to defend me in court. (Whether or not they deny the claim in the end) And, to quote - because of the "litigious nature of the States", insurance companies have become hesitant to insure anyone who works on websites, unless you purchase personal and professional liability insurance - which is tens of thousands of dollars per year. (not something that I have!) No one has heard of this? I also, found it odd, when we were informed of it. We've talked directly to a couple insurance companies, and have gotten the same answer!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinpa1969 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Don't forget to add the servers onto it the servers are NOT on site, I cant think of anyone here that actually owns their own datacenter... ( working our butts off trying though) so the servers would not be added to the homeowners policy.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinpa1969 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 thats where you need to remember to separate assets we are actually an LLC so our homeowners is totally separate... also Our INS Statefarm Knows who we are what we do and know its an internet business. and there are NO issues.... I'm in Canada, and my broker uses companies from the states and canada. They said that Ins. Companies in the states will CANCEL our home insurance for working on websites. It isn't the extra cost of items they are concerned about - we already added extra for the computer equipment, but the liability. That if I screw up a website, and the business comes after me, our HOME insurance is obligated to defend me in court. (Whether or not they deny the claim in the end) And, to quote - because of the "litigious nature of the States", insurance companies have become hesitant to insure anyone who works on websites, unless you purchase personal and professional liability insurance - which is tens of thousands of dollars per year. (not something that I have!) No one has heard of this? I also, found it odd, when we were informed of it. We've talked directly to a couple insurance companies, and have gotten the same answer!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsign Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 the servers are NOT on site. so the servers would not be added to the homeowners policy.... I know I know, it was a joke towards 'webhosts' who have their servers in their wardrobes.. If only forums could convey tone of voice 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyhosting Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 the servers are NOT on site, I cant think of anyone here that actually owns their own datacenter... ( working our butts off trying though) so the servers would not be added to the homeowners policy.... Even if you had your own DC, this would not be able to be at your own home, so home insurance would not be an issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswp Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 I got the silly grin after your remark about servers... I'll claim the 5th on server 'ownership'. And please don't tell HostGator that I call their support team my server technicians. lol anyone in Canada that has no problem? By the way, this new policy has come out in Canada over the last 2 months, our broker nicely told us that we "do not" have an internet business until we can voluntarily move our insurance to another company. If you DO get your insurance canceled, it is very difficult to get another mainstream company to insure you. And I'm not talking about insurance for STUFF/ goods/ material possessions - I'm talking about the risk that we incur for hosting people's business websites and means of income. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinpa1969 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 You will want to ask them exactly WHAT risk there is, you HOST the site, and unless totally screwed your TOS your clients are responsible for their OWN backups ( this releases you from the client screwing something up ) and im sure that you do frequent OFFSITE ( totally separate server totally separate datacenter ) this is to protect in-case of hardware failure... and for Business Insurance for loss of income due to an issue with the server thats on the client its the same as having insurance on a brick and mortar store... its THEIR responsibility to insure their livelihood NOT yours. All you are doing from your HOME is accessing servers that are somewhere else.... your Homeowners shouldnt have a thing to do with it... Change your Business type get a PO Box and call it a day 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 i asked about insurance for an online hosting business, as its hosting you are selling physical items Hosting is not a physical item, it's a service. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyhosting Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Hosting is not a physical item, it's a service. mistyped meant to say which i asked about insurance for an online hosting business, as its hosting you are NOT selling physical items, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswp Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 and for Business Insurance for loss of income due to an issue with the server thats on the client its the same as having insurance on a brick and mortar store... its THEIR responsibility to insure their livelihood NOT yours. In my experience, you're right and you're wrong. Yes, it IS the same as brick and mortar. Thus, when their ins. company pays them out, they go after whoever is or may be responsible. This is exactly what the home ins. co. is saying -they are obligated to defend me - incurring legal fees - even if they don't pay out and/or I'm not covered. THAT is why they will cancel anyone's insurance who live in Canada, works on the web, and has clients in the states. I'm crossing my fingers that if I separate my business name with personal name, that'll satisfy my home ins. co. (And we've checked with 4 MAJOR insurers in Canada - all give us the same answer. They shut down as soon as we mention an internet business - they don't even care what it is!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyhosting Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 In my experience, you're right and you're wrong. Yes, it IS the same as brick and mortar. Thus, when their ins. company pays them out, they go after whoever is or may be responsible. This is exactly what the home ins. co. is saying -they are obligated to defend me - incurring legal fees - even if they don't pay out and/or I'm not covered. THAT is why they will cancel anyone's insurance who live in Canada, works on the web, and has clients in the states. I'm crossing my fingers that if I separate my business name with personal name, that'll satisfy my home ins. co. (And we've checked with 4 MAJOR insurers in Canada - all give us the same answer. They shut down as soon as we mention an internet business - they don't even care what it is!) You dont look far I checked google and searched "canadian internet business insurance" and a large seletion appeared 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txkhomes Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Point taken is that you need to review your TOS, most major ISP IPP have a tos that only liability is the previous term .ie only response on liability would be to refund the "current" hosting term payment, they have the liability for their own backups - you provide a means to have their site on the internet ...if you remember correctly last year HostGator, The Planet had a huge fire at the datacenter, which took almost 2 weeks to completely repair - did you ever hear of any lawsuits, no most people got a credit to their account but that was just it a credit to the existing account. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyhosting Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Point taken is that you need to review your TOS, most major ISP IPP have a tos that only liability is the previous term .ie only response on liability would be to refund the "current" hosting term payment, they have the liability for their own backups - you provide a means to have their site on the internet ...if you remember correctly last year HostGator, The Planet had a huge fire at the datacenter, which took almost 2 weeks to completely repair - did you ever hear of any lawsuits, no most people got a credit to their account but that was just it a credit to the existing account. I Agree your TOS should have a statement like "Indemnification Under no circumstances shall the Company be held liable for damages resulting from any interruption of service for an amount greater than the amount of the charges payable by the Customer for services during the period damages occurred. Customer also acknowledges that in no case will the Company be liable for damages as a result of its own negligence in excess of the charges payable by the Customer for services during the period damages occurred. Customer acknowledges that they make use of Companies' services and facilities at their own risk." which means that you cannot be held responsible for anything that goes wrong with your clients files/site etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswp Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 Yes, TOS is one thing. Personally, I feel quite confident that I'd be protected in teh event of a suit. However, that is a completely separate issue from home insurance. I know ins. co. SHOULD be reasonable about risk, but to their defence, they insure 1,000's of home based businesses under personal home policies, so I think actuaries are just trying to keep risks down by disallowing entire sectors of work at home businesses. Easyhosting - I didn't say we couldn't get business insurance. Sure we can. Probably LOTS of companies would like us to insure with them! THe higher the risk, the more they get paid. Personal and professional liability ins. can be a HUGE premium(>10,000/yr) for them. What I'm saying, is that it is difficult to get residential insurance if you ALSO work at home on the internet and have clients in the states. I'd find it easier to believe the advice offered here, if there were others who have been where I am, and resolved the issue. The fact that you haven't been here, only means you're not in my shoes YET. Or alternatively, as suggested in this thread, you have your business actions under a business name or limited proprietorship. So I'm definitely going with the "I-need-to-get-professional" route and paying for my business license right away. It is curious to me, why others aren't in this same boat. I've checked, and rechecked, and from what I can tell, my info is correct on the cancelation of personal ins for reasons stated above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinpa1969 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I checked again with our policy today. Actually called in and verified that we are in NO danger of cancellation because we run an internet business from here, the fact is that we 1 store NO information locally 2 all servers are in well established datacenterrs ( not here ) 3 Our TOS are tight as a gnatts ass 4 ALL we do from here is access OUTSIDE networks, even if we were not using a PO Box as our mailing address 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswp Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 Thank you MerlinPa. Can I ask - are you in the US? And your home ins. doesn't care that you're a host at home? If so, what is the ins. company!?! I think I like them better. By the way, we're using Royal SunAlliance. (one of the biggest here) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinpa1969 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Yes im in the US Yes the know that I run a hosting business out of my home.. they also realize that we dont have ANY servers or client site stuff here. we use State Farm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thnode Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I just read over this entire thread and have come to the conclusion this is blown way out of proporation and is over complicated. Get your business licensed as LLC - and get home insurance. It's that easy. Your servers are not in your home - and if you are separating a room in your home dedicated to your "office at home" for tax reasons - you are fine for getting insurance on your home without having to worry about liability for your business. Having your computer at your home that is dedicated to work is all they need to know - it's not like your home insurance is going to cover liability for your servers you are reselling through HostGater anyways - so all they are covering are the items you use for your business in your home office - no matter if you're selling MaryKay products via mass e-mail using Outlook on your "office computer" - that just doesn't matter - and neither does you accessing your WHMCS installation via your "office computer" either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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