What would you do? Renew or not?

[isdoo]

Hi,

 

I have a client, who has been a little lax in paying their bills.

 

Since I started issuing invoices with WHMCS I have made it quite clear that domains are not renewed until invoices have been paid.

 

However this client, who I know, now owes me quite a bit and has several domains all coming up for renewal this month.

 

A few have already expired, but their main email/website one expires next week.

 

If they send me money, which they have promised, I doubt it will be for the full amount.

 

If they choose to just pay the most recent invoices, i.e. to keep their domains do I...

 

a) Allocate the payment to the most recent invoices and renew the domains

 

or

 

b) Allocate the money to the oldest invoices therefore risking the loss of their domain names if they have not paid all the money owed?

 

If I do b) could I be in trouble if they do not pay all that is owed and the domains are lost?

 

What would you do in this situation?

 

Due to my own poor health I have not been as good as I would have wished in chasing clients for money, so part of the problem is mine - however all invoices have been sent out via email (sure many sadly may go into spam folders, but not sure if that is the fault of whmcs, me or the client.) so clients should be fully aware of what they owe.

[WHMCS Andrew]

this sounds like a little bit of both.

 

But i don't see how you could be in trouble if the client doesn't pay

[PPH]

The money should be applied however the customer specifies in my opinion. If they don't specify what the payment applies to, the oldest. Pretty straight forward I think

[WHMCS Andrew]

I wish I could pay my bills in the order I wanted to.

 

You could use a credit card as an example here.

 

Customer a transfers 100

Then purchases 1200 of goods.

 

If they then made a payment - where do you expect the money to go first?

[generic]

you don't need to chase anyone for payment. If you sent them the invoice and they did not pay it, they are wrong.

 

Suspend the site and watch how fast they send you a check. works for me all the time. I believe people will take advantage of your generosity and pay another bill first if they know you will let them slide for a while.

 

However if you invoiced the hosting separate from the domain name, then if they paid the domain name renewal invoice before the others you don't have a choice but to accept it and renew the domain. Their hosting may get suspended, but they paid for their domain to get renewed and you should do that.

 

Unless of course you have a good tos with this situation addresses.

[ihostgreen]

I reckon... If you have had issues with them then its time they got sorted...

 

If they are making money of this site of theirs especially suspend as soon as the time is up, no more lenient behaviour nothing.

 

If I didnt pay the rent on my flat I'd be thrown out! Same principle! good luck

[bear]

I'd suggest calling the client. Explain that they are behind, and that the money paid now, if less than the full amount owed, will go towards settling old debts first. Further explain that this may not include renewing expiring domains, and that they are at risk of losing them if not renewed promptly.

You would be within your rights to collect payments for existing debt prior to new debts incurred, I feel. Otherwise, the client could owe you for hosting, domains and more, pay just the domains...and leave with thier files, never paying for used hosting. Certainly not fair, and I've seen it happen. Don't be their buddy or bank, be thier host and treat it like any other business transaction.

[PPH]

I'd suggest calling the client. Explain that they are behind, and that the money paid now, if less than the full amount owed, will go towards settling old debts first. Further explain that this may not include renewing expiring domains, and that they are at risk of losing them if not renewed promptly.

You would be within your rights to collect payments for existing debt prior to new debts incurred, I feel. Otherwise, the client could owe you for hosting, domains and more, pay just the domains...and leave with thier files, never paying for used hosting. Certainly not fair, and I've seen it happen. Don't be their buddy or bank, be thier host and treat it like any other business transaction.

 

Sorry but WHMCS would override what you tell the customer than if they were to attempt to pay invoices in the order they decide. Even if they have services that are past due, they can pick the domain invoice or the hosting invoice they want to pay and their services registered and or unsuspended if automation is enabled.

 

Also not sure how legal it would be to apply the monies however you see fit. That would be like saying you have a rental property in your name along with your house and one for your business. Then decide to pay your business & House power bill without paying the rental. They can't apply the money you paid to the rental even if it is an older debt.

[MACscr]

payments always apply to oldest invoices first. Never apply them to new ones. Ever. Its that simple.

[generic]

MACscr...

 

fortunately i have never had this happen, but im sure its just a matter of time... how can you control that, after they pay a select invoice, do you manually go in and move the payment to an older one? Or does whmcs apply the payment to an older invoice even if they select a new one.

[bear]

Even if they have services that are past due, they can pick the domain invoice or the hosting invoice they want to pay and their services registered and or unsuspended if automation is enabled.

Then they risk having the service not paid for shut off.

 

Also not sure how legal it would be to apply the monies however you see fit. That would be like saying you have a rental property in your name along with your house and one for your business. Then decide to pay your business & House power bill without paying the rental. They can't apply the money you paid to the rental even if it is an older debt.

Then they lose the rental.

In your example, the house owner is not the utility company. Quite a difference between that and a host that provides all the service.

 

I think you've missed my point somewhat. Old debts are still owed. If someone doesn't pay a debt, that service is cancelled and sent to collections. If they pay a new debt first, they get a call to explain that this will occur. If they pay for thier hosting but not the domain renewal, the domain isn't renewed and the site goes down. If they pay the domain but not the hosting, the site goes down. If they pay a new hosting invoice while they still owe an old one (for the same account)...the payment applies to the old one, and the new one is now outstanding. They can't "skip" payments and still receive service, at least not with me.

[Si]

Hi,

However this client, who I know, now owes me quite a bit and has several domains all coming up for renewal this month.

 

A few have already expired, but their main email/website one expires next week.

 

If they send me money, which they have promised, I doubt it will be for the full amount.

 

If their domains have expired, thats it. They are marked as Expired in WHMCS too. (You haven't paid for them to be renewed, so the customer owes you nothing and it is their choice not to pay for those items).

 

After 1 day past due date, their service is suspended.

 

After 7 days past due date, they have a late payment fee applied.

 

After 30 days past its due date, if an invoice remains unpaid, its pretty much assumed that the invoice/service wasn't wanted so we mark the invoice cancelled, as well as the services.

 

Can't see the issue here.

 

If the customer then wants those domains renewed, they need to contact us to have the invoice re-instated, AND any registrar late payment fees that haven't already been applied, (ie redemption fees) are then added to the invoice.

 

If we don't mark the invoice cancelled and they then login and pay it, they will expect the domain to be renewed, BUT you might then have the problem of having to raise another invoice for redemption fees to be added before you can renew the domain.

 

So cancel the invoices to avoid this.

 

Hi,

 

If they choose to just pay the most recent invoices, i.e. to keep their domains do I...

 

a) Allocate the payment to the most recent invoices and renew the domains

 

or

 

b) Allocate the money to the oldest invoices therefore risking the loss of their domain names if they have not paid all the money owed?

 

If I do b) could I be in trouble if they do not pay all that is owed and the domains are lost?

 

What would you do in this situation?

 

if THEY make payment on certain invoices, THEY have done so out of choice. Just as they decide not to pay certain invoices, (that's their choice) and they then decide to pay certain invoices, (that's their choice too).

 

The whole point of WHMCS is that it takes this type of decision away from you and puts the onus on the customer. You don't allocate payment anywhere.....customers do this.

 

Relax over it.

 

If they send you a bulk payment without specifying what invoices are to be paid, you can't do anything. Bank the money. Tell them you need to know what invoices are to be paid for and let them decide.

 

The choices here aren't yours. They are your customers. The buck stops with them. It only becomes your issue if you give them credit.

 

Due to my own poor health I have not been as good as I would have wished in chasing clients for money, so part of the problem is mine - however all invoices have been sent out via email (sure many sadly may go into spam folders, but not sure if that is the fault of whmcs, me or the client.) so clients should be fully aware of what they owe.

 

I wish you well in your health. The first decision is to remove the stress out of this situation for yourself. WHMCS did that for me when we moved to it from Modernbill. Let it take the strain, set rules in place for customers and they will work with the rules.

 

We host friends, and its not a good situation ever. They give me more trouble than any other customers. They don't use support routes, but phone me on my mobile, (even on holiday). I have recently suspended friends hosting accounts and let their domains lapse because of non-payment. They quickly made payments and I talked them through the process over the phone. They now know the system and understand THEY have to pay their bills on time.

 

Re the spam folder issue. Its not an issue. You can take steps to avoid this (other threads cover the topic), but 'not receiving an email' is not an excuse for not renewing or paying an invoice. They have a duty to add your email/domain to their allowed list, but like has already been said, once a service has been suspended, they will soon now, (irrespective of email notifications) and will make payment if they wish to.

 

I wish you well....but get tough, for your own sake.

 

Si

[CSNM-Carl]

 

After 1 day past due date, their service is suspended.

 

After 7 days past due date, they have a late payment fee applied.

 

After 30 days past its due date, if an invoice remains unpaid, its pretty much assumed that the invoice/service wasn't wanted so we mark the invoice cancelled, as well as the services.

 

Aren't those payment terms a little strict? Especially suspending 1 day past the due date?

 

I must admit, I'm getting fed up of late payers!

[brianoz]

Whatever you do, don't renew domains that haven't been paid. If they pay for and renew just the domain somehow, suspend the service. Amazing how this gets services paid for and renewed really quickly these days for us!!

 

If they're about to lose the domain as 30 days past are coming up, warn them they may permanently lose the domain. You may want to call them and remind them that the domain/service is down after the renewal date has expired - if they know you well, have someone else do it. It's a business transaction - it costs you money to provide the service, never lose sight of that fact.

[Si]

Aren't those payment terms a little strict? Especially suspending 1 day past the due date?

 

I must admit, I'm getting fed up of late payers!

 

 

Well, everyone has their own thoughts on this. The current setup works for us and we've experimented with different variations over a 9 year period. In a way, we feel we have a duty to our customers to do this. ie, we only suspend an account, which can be re-activated instantly on payment of the invoice. After all the customer has had 30 days notice, one reminder, and an overdue notice, AND a 'your account has been suspended' email.

 

We wait 1 day in case their credit card has failed and they need to organise another form of payment, but that again is the customer's responsibility.

 

Si

[netearth]

Well, certainly in any business its normally FIFO (First In, First Out) rather than LIFO (Last in First Out). Maybe if you receive payment from them (crossing fingers you actually get the money that is) then give them a call tell them that it will be applied as X, Y and Z because you are covering the oldest invoice first.

 

If they state, No, we want that money to go to the hosting invoice that keeps our site running, then you need to make a decision, based on what you have had to pay out if anything.

 

IE. Oldest invoice is a domain name, call it asd.com, you have already renewed it therefore IT owes you money. I would take the funds received off of that. Or when talking to the client, inform them that it has already been renewed and therefore needs to be paid as the first invoice, if they refuse, then its a simple case of taking ownership to sell it as they are refusing to pay you for it.

 

You need to think of it in a sense much like a fraudulant invoice, you have recieved money in good faith, purchased the service (say a domain) in good faith for that order. 1 month down the line you get a call or merchant services stings you for it. If you cant get a refund for the domain what do you do, if it were I, I would take ownership of the domain and start putting it to use, or sell it to recoup the money I have had to pay out.

 

Ownership of anything shouldn't transfer until you have your cash for it.

 

In this day and age where so much fraud is going on, you need to think of number 1, you!

 

Kind regards,

Chris