ssecor39 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hello to all, Our website - www.precisehosting.net and its intellectual property has been stolen by two web hosting companies. We have worked very hard to get where we are to only have the following sites rip us off in a matter of seconds. 1. www.hostveteran.com 2. www.hostbrella.com - very blantant rip Does anyone know how to combat this and how to get the offending sites to take down their sites as they are a clear violation of copyright laws? We have filed two complaints with the FCC and sent DMCA letters to both Hosting Companies and their respective ISP's. We have filed with the United States Copyright Office awaiting our certificate. We appreciate any feedback in this manner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 DMCAs are about all you can do, but the FCC? Not sure it's their jurisdiction or concern, personally. as for copyright filing, you didn't need that, since the act of publishing (first) conveys copyright to the published work. If you filed after the rip was discovered, it won't influence anything anyway. Start with a DMCA to the host. After a reasonable wait, send to the upstream. Wait again, escalate to the next in line. Lather, rinse, repeat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro67 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Sorry to hear that, Scott. I notice that one of them is now offline. Obvously you found them easily enough, one of them has even left your meta tags i their header. Seriously, can i suggest the following thread to protect your templates? http://forum.whmcs.com/showthread.php?t=8783 I know the horse has bolted, but it'll stop anybody else ripping you off. I also highly recommedn re-reading the thread on additional security steps, including making your backend ssl, as well as renaming your admin and template directories. It Au, we have some great trade practices legislation about "passing off", but I don't think they'll be relevant to you. Also, being able to identify the name of the person you need to speak to is a good idea. I might be that the business owner, knows nothing about what a supplier or employee might have done. However, it would appear that that person owns 50+ domains you can get your own answers at http://whois.domaintools.com/hostbrella.com, or for a couple of bucks, get more info. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssecor39 Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi Zorro67, Thank you for your very informative feedback! We really appreciate it! My support staff has made the appropriate changes and added the information outlined in the forum article to the .htaccess file. Very good info to know for sure! So far we have only caught two sites that have ripped our work. We hope that we have put a good stop to this unethical practice at least for the time being. It looks like www.hostveteran.com and www.hostbrella.com are still up. Host Veteran has simply blocked access to their site from our ISP address. They cannot possibly stop the millions of other ISP addresses from seeing that they are rip off artists. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssecor39 Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi Bear, We have done so with the DMCAs. We understand and appreciate that the FCC probably will not do anything to stop this but at least it is noted and assigned a case number. It may simply be a scare tactic at this point. Its not a threat to the offending sites, its merely an FYI to them noting that their stealing has not gone unoticed. DMCAs are about all you can do, but the FCC? Not sure it's their jurisdiction or concern, personally. as for copyright filing, you didn't need that, since the act of publishing (first) conveys copyright to the published work. If you filed after the rip was discovered, it won't influence anything anyway. Start with a DMCA to the host. After a reasonable wait, send to the upstream. Wait again, escalate to the next in line. Lather, rinse, repeat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striddy Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Scott, check your PM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 http://www.hostveteran.com/ is returning a 403 and 500 now. Did you have anything to do with this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Seems it only does that when WHMCS forum is in the referrer. Just went from that link, failed...entered manually, access it just fine. That hostbrella one is just moronic, isn't it? "<meta name="description" content="Powerful and Reliable Cpanel Web Hosting Solutions from Precise Hosting. Order now for just $39.95 a year!" />" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herpherp Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 http://www.hostveteran.com/ is returning a 403 and 500 now. Did you have anything to do with this? only if you click the link in the thread, they've blocked traffic from this post only... (nm bear beat me2it) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrat Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I confirm that. I would copy their web site using HTTrack as evidence together with screen shots then write to them demanding the matter is corrected with immediate effect or you will commence proceedings without further recourse to themselves claiming maximum possible damages. Best wishes resolving this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssecor39 Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi Redrat, We appreciate your input into this matter. What a nightmare! We are currently tightening up security on our work and making the necessary changes to directories to help combat further rips. Grabbing their site as we speak for evidence to present in court should it go that far. Sincerely, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shimmy Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 They are both still working here. Pretty pathetic for a hosting company to rip off another one. This needs to be spread around some other forums. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrat Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 @Shimmy: I thought the same thing by way of bringing some additional pressure to bare. It is pretty pathetic to rip off someone else's work anyway but to delude one's self that simply blocking IPs will make everything go away is like a fat boy trying to hide behind a blade of grass believing no one can see him. lol Kid's stuff really. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayLott Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Sorry to hear about this mess. I also would like to protect my website design. How were you able to find these thugs so fast? I want to also find out if someone is stealing my site also. Thanks in advance for any tips. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrat Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) @JayLott This is one way http://www.wordsandpeople.com/security/prevent-website-hijackers.htm and there is also another method I saw somewhere recently, possibly in WHT forum. I'm interested in this myself so will see what I can find and post back here if I can contribute anything else that is useful on the subject. Quick edit: This is a good one! : http://www.copyscape.com/ Edited November 17, 2008 by redrat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssecor39 Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi Redrat, www.copyscape.com is a very good one to use! Only caveat is that they only let you use it 5 times a month from any one ip address to check. This is how I was able to catch www.hostveteran.com and www.hostbrella.com I am pleased to report that Host Brella is no more and have deleted their site as of this evening!! One small victory so far. Host Veteran is playing hard ball and both The Planet and Host Gator are not playing nice either. Will keep at it till we get some satisfaction. We are really curious why Host Veteran has seen fit to block isp attempts to get to their site if they do not have anything to hide. Guilty as charged!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssecor39 Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi JayLott, Thanks for your feedback as well. We appreciate all the attention that we have received and the support of fine business owners as your self taking the time to bring light to this cause. What we experienced is nothing short of feeling violated and abused. We all are in this business for various reasons, but the ultimate goal is to provide our clients the best customer service and online experience possible. We all share a common goal and find our own niches in this very crowded arena called Hosting. We will keep everyone posted for updates to this mess. Sorry to hear about this mess. I also would like to protect my website design. How were you able to find these thugs so fast? I want to also find out if someone is stealing my site also. Thanks in advance for any tips. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I am pleased to report that Host Brella is no more and have deleted their site as of this evening!! Mostly, anyway. The images and CSS still exist, but html links are not showing. If it was really deleted and no longer going to be used, why are the images and CSS still there? http://www.hostbrella.com/css/ http://www.hostbrella.com/images/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssecor39 Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi Bear, We are really curious as well. Our copyright is filed and awaiting approval from the United States Copyright Office. It is more than likely that we are too late to go after this jerk, but at least once we get our work copyrighted, we will then have a legal recourse should any further thefts occur. Here is the response we just got from Host Veteran: From: HostVeteran <webmaster@hostveteran.com> Subject: Re: Contact Form: Stolen Website To: sales@precisehosting.net Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 6:42 PM Hello Scott, I have been in contact with my lawyer regarding this matter. At this moment we are trying to get a hold of the person that made and uploaded our site. I actually paid money for the design that we have up right now. I do see that it looks almost exactly like yours. I cant just take the site down with no proof of a copyright. My designer has said that this design is his original work. I am not on his side but I need some kind of proof that this design is yours. If this design is infact yours we will take it down ASAP but I need some kind of proof of your copyright. I am not a thief and would appreciate if this could be worked out in a private manner until we get to the bottom of this. Thank You 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 All you need to do is prove he has some of your content in that site, or that your design predates his. An official copyright is not needed, as all creative works are attributed to the original author at the time of publishing. Was this created from scratch for or by you, or was it a template you'd modified? Have the original sliced PSD? That's decent proof, and if your work was first, he probably doesn't have that, or his version will show obvious editing. In looking at the two designs, yours looks "homogenous" like it was done all at once, his header looks odd. For the future, here's a tip: Embed some tiny text in your unique images that can only be seen if enlarged a few times. I have a buddy who does this (as I do now), and he's been able to prove he owns work rather readily using this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayLott Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thanks for the links to copyscape! As for host veteran they do seem to want to work with you. They might have gotten ripped off also by some unethical "web designer". I do think you should try and work with them in a more professional way as he might not of been aware of the situation until you found out. Looks like there may be 2 victims here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanClinton Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 (edited) The Proof?? http://www.hostveteran.com/images/design.jpg ... they don't offer web design services Look at how they stripped the image of your name... http://www.hostveteran.com/images/hosting.jpg vs http://www.precisehosting.net/images/hosting.jpg Edited November 18, 2008 by DeanClinton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkook Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Do you know DMCAs url for USA? Is there any international DMCAs? I was researching from google, but not sure how it works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssecor39 Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 Hi JayLott, We can certainly appreciate the response that Host Veteran has sent us. The problem is the fact that they are blocking access to their site by blocking isps. This simply does not happen unless they have something to hide. As far as the design, it was made by myself and my designer personally to include specific details that only I had input on that were blantantly ripped by Host Veteran. Check out www.archive.org and you can see that www.hostveteran.com has no history so they are very new on the scene. We have been in business since 2003. This mind you does not preclude that they could have been a victim too, but highly unlikely due to their actions thus far. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. Thanks for the links to copyscape! As for host veteran they do seem to want to work with you. They might have gotten ripped off also by some unethical "web designer". I do think you should try and work with them in a more professional way as he might not of been aware of the situation until you found out. Looks like there may be 2 victims here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I'm not blocked unless I visit from this thread. He's probably sniffing referrers. I think he's on the right track, however. Images when saved as JPG suffer from artifacting as a result of the compression used when saving. The image he mentions above shows less artifacting than yours, which probably means it has been resaved after editing. See the screen shot: Note the extra artifacts on the Hostveteran image? That would likely mean it followed yours, and was edited. If you have proof of the original work in PSD, you have the original creative copyright, and they need to take it down. If that weren't enough, this next image shows areas without artifacts and areas of solid color where your text was removed. Pretty definitive. For the record, I've had my site ripped about 6 times over the years, and not once did the person I contacted fail to say "my designer did it". Once of them even threatened me with physical violence if it was proven *I* was lying. In all cases, they wound up removing the content in the end. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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