An Open Letter to Matt, John, and the rest of the pre-cPanel team.

[Bubka3]

Hello Matt, John, and the rest of the pre-cPanel team,

 

Ever since the cPanel partnership, confidence in the product has declined, a couple of months support was in the gutter, development has been slow, and I haven't seen you guys in over months (I miss you!).

 

Excluding all that, I'm simply posting this letter to point a specific thread which really made my jaw drop. As a licensed user, paying user of this software, I never expected to see such actions taken here on the WHMCS forums. Sure we had a few incidents, but bear took care of it mostly.

 

The topic I'm talking about is: http://forum.whmcs.com/showthread.php?66786-Depressed-and-upset-with-tech-support

At first, I made a post about the flaws in the reply by the staff to cheer up the mode, entertain the OP, and just really point out the quickness in typing that made it look like a canned response. The post was removed without explanation, any type of infraction or warning points, and no PM (or email as far as I can tell). Initially I wasn't going to say anything as it's simply too much time. Then I read that thread after a few days. Wow. Let me get some quotes from infopro (Chuck?).

 

Well, I was going to start with a quote, but after reading this ( http://forum.whmcs.com/showthread.php?66786-Depressed-and-upset-with-tech-support&p=290195#post290195 ) I'm concerned. Why is anyone who has any moderation ability on this forum flat out trolling the user? I understand some of the things he's said are unrealistic, but to simply bash him for it is just flat out mean. Now I'll do 1 quote from that post.

 

So, demanding something from the CEO of this company is overkill and drama. Not getting this apology, and then coming to the forums like this and complaining more about it here in this thread, is additional, unneeded drama. Did you think these sorts of comments would bring out the big guns to assist you?

WHMCS used to be a company that was actively ran by the CEO. Matt used to pop in whenever requested, and just generally say Hi! So after such a little time of a big business change, people aren't really used to it. Was it a unrealistic demand today? Probably, I haven't seen Matt in a very long time. Before the cPanel partnership? No, would of been perfectly realistic, and in fact, it would of actually happened.

 

Now back to the topic. After that post, infopro proceeds to bash another paying customer. At this point I thought I was dreaming. (Side note for infopro: "If you have an issue with my comments, please feel free to contact me via these forums." wish granted) Now you just read more bashing from infopro. Yes, you might be able to say that durangod as out of line, I don't know, but it's still a paying customer. Would you get such responses from your web host? This is really where arrogance reaches a whole new level.

As for this forum, I am not only the forum moderator, I'm also the Administrator.

No words. Simply put, I'm sure Matt can easily get rid of you just as he added you. I have an idea (little angry after reading that thread), how about we let Chris be the "forum moderator and administrator". He respects paying clients, is always willing to explain things and help people, and just a generally good person.

 

I'm not really sure what infopro's intentions are. He said a few times something about getting rid of the constant bashing of WHMCS, but I don't think the proper way to achieve that goal is by bashing paying customers. At the end of the day, they are paying customers. Will I leave? No. Can I leave? Easily. I'm just interested to see what will happen if anything other then infopro tearing this post up or completely removing it. I'd email this to Matt, but I doubt he uses his matt [at] whmcs.com email anyways.

 

Thanks,

Concerned WHMCS Paying Customer.

[durangod]

Bubka3, thank you for posting this. Very well written and i could not agree more. I may be new but i remember all the posts by matt himself which is the main reason i thought he would still be involved enough to reply. Thanks again for your very well written reply. I second the vote "Chris for Administrator"!

[Bubka3]

Hey durangod, thanks for the support! Sorry for using you as an example, it just the most easiest way.

 

As for WHMCS staff, please don't let me wake up and find that thread deleted (saw a couple of you reading this).

[durangod]

Hey durangod, thanks for the support! Sorry for using you as an example, it just the most easiest way.

 

As for WHMCS staff, please don't let me wake up and find that thread deleted (saw a couple of you reading this).

 

No apology needed at all, im a nice, tough old bird. I mean well but sometimes i just dont have the patience to show that about me lol... hee hee I know Chris had mentioned at one time there were some non productive posts on the forum, i hope that they can all see that we are trying to make things more productive in our own way and better for everyone.

[wsa]

Nice post 100% true the update be very slow. Don't see Matt no more poster or said something on the thread like before

[JFOC]

I am agree with your post Bubka3

[Infopro]

how about we let Chris be the "forum moderator and administrator". He respects paying clients, is always willing to explain things and help people, and just a generally good person.

 

He is already, you're good to go. And, he's come to help here from cPanel, like me.

 

I see you failed to see the issues in that thread you linked to. And you've taken the liberty to make it sound like the customer had a valid issue and was in the right to call the Support team "monkeys".

 

Threads were often deleted here in the past, just make them go away. Instead, now, we'll answer them as needed unless they are off topic or unwarranted as yours was in that thread.

 

At first, I made a post about the flaws in the reply by the staff to cheer up the mode, entertain the OP, and just really point out the quickness in typing that made it look like a canned response. The post was removed without explanation, any type of infraction or warning points, and no PM (or email as far as I can tell). Initially I wasn't going to say anything as it's simply too much time. Then I read that thread after a few days. Wow. Let me get some quotes from infopro (Chuck?).

 

That sure sounds ok, but here's the actual comment by you:

I burst out laughing when I read this.

 

Cheered him right up, I'm sure of it.

 

Matt is still visiting these forums on a regular basis. He's in Houston Texas right now at the cPanel offices. I would think his time is limited right now while he's on the road in the US. I'm sure he'll be back on the forums to say hi to you as time permits.

 

You might not like my comments in that thread, and that's ok with me. But the name calling needed to be addressed and I addressed it. I will again too.

 

Here's one more quote from that other thread by durangod:

 

"Ok done.. "

 

But, I guess this topic is not done, is it?

 

Carry on. But, be mindful of the warnings in that other thread that made your jaw drop, ok?

 

 

Thanks!

[sparky]

I would have to agree as well as I was also disgusted to see the way that durangod's post was handled even though some points of the OP's post were a little over the top (no offense dave).

 

This is the longest that I can remember between releases of whmcs and to be honest I don't have a great deal of faith in it anymore.

 

Lets hope that V5.2 is released very soon and is the best ever non buggy release yet.

[durangod]

Im the first to admit some things were over the top, i dont deny that one bit and no offense taken at all. I was red in the face ticked off at the time and i feel i had a right to be. Here is the sadest part of it all. That WHMCS had a chance to make it good, to step up and just do the right thing, and i know that Chris was trying to do just that. But then Infopro stepped up "defending his buddies" which he did not have to do because i called noone a monkey, how could it, i dont even know them.

 

Maybe i should have said if the company wantes to buy staplers that done work, or maybe i should have said if the company wants to buy silk bathroom tissue. But i just happen to say monkeys to make a point and i guess he took it all wrong, and i do apologize for that, i should have worded that better. Even if he had to say something, keep it simple and just say, i know your upset maybe cool off a bit and get your bearing and i hope it works out.

 

But to continue my point, here comes Infopro and his "im the one that makes those decisions and i am not only the moderator i am the administrator macho attitude" in which was not needed in this case at all. If he would have just let Chris handle this and went on about his way, things would have went much better.

 

I have a great idea, and i hope this will help everyone. Infopro you seem to be great at coding i guess but not so good with customer service, so maybe the best way for you to help is to go do come coding, maybe avoid the public and just make a heck of a great software. Its no sin that customer service may not be your forte, its not for everyone. So lets help everyone and put everyone where they will do best for the company. Chris up front with customers and Infopro in the back coding.

 

I hope you will see this a positive step and not a negative reply.

 

I would like to add. Maybe its just that everyone is on edge because of the companies growth and changes, nobody likes changes, im sure the employees dont, we (customers) dont unless its good stuff. Maybe thats a big part of this feeling of distance that i feel much of the time anymore is just things are up in the air and have not quite settled down yet. If that is the case then i hope it all settles down for everyone.

 

Just a bit about me, part of my experience is that i spent years in the hotbox at AOL. The hotbox is where the most ticked off customers get sent to. My life has been threatened more than once trust me and i been yelled at, cussed at, heard them through stuff in their house and i took it all becuase it was what i was there for. Did i like it, nope not at all. I did my job and i had more saves than anyone many times. Thats not to say im perfect, but i had to suck it up and just take it and i did my best. I left because after all the lies we were paid to tell them, i could not stomach it anymore and i got to where i could not look at myself in the mirror anymore so i left. So when i say i know a good way to handle someone who is ticked off as i was, i know what im talking about.

 

Thanks..

Edited January 18, 2013 by durangod

[Infopro]

I am not a developer.

 

 

But to continue my point, here comes Infopro and his "im the one that makes those decisions and i am not only the moderator i am the administrator macho attitude" in which was not needed in this case at all.

 

I hope you will see this a positive step and not a negative reply.

 

Your characterization of me in that quote is a negative. I've highlighted it for you.

 

My comments to your offensive, unneeded, original post, and subsequent posts, displeased you, I get it. I think we all, get it.

 

And yet, you want to carry on this topic into another thread.

 

 

If he would have just let Chris handle this and went on about his way, things would have went much better.

 

For the record, I was asked to respond to you and your offensive comments, by Chris.

 

This new thread should be used as best you can. It should not be a rehash of the original post or it will be merged into that other thread.

[Alistair]

I fail to see how constant threads like this are useful.

 

WHMCS know there are issues that need to be dealt with, and if you think they're not working on them, you're deluded. These things will take time to resolve.

 

This is the bottom line:

 

Will I leave? No.

 

WHMCS is a great product and I would say the overwhelming majority of "paying customers" are more than satisfied.

 

There will always be room for improvement - WHMCS know this. Let them crack on with it.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Alistair
typo

[durangod]

I suppose i should let others say thier peace here, i didnt start this new thread. It seems that we will just agree to disagree there Infopro and that is ok. You go your way ill go mine and i will just let others continue this thread, unless you also have a problem with that. I am curious, your not a developer, your not quite good at customer service, tell me what you do again so i know..

 

This was Bubka3 post and he made some very good points, i dont want our conflict to delute that.

 

Thanks..

 

PS just in case you didnt read it i did update my previous post.

Edited January 18, 2013 by durangod

[Infopro]

I've already done that in the other thread.

 

 

your not quite good at customer service

 

Responding to your comments in the other thread was not meant as customer service. I've got no idea how you are as customer service, and you've certainly got no idea about mine. So, your comment above, to me, is more of the same.

 

I have zero issues with this thread continuing, so far.

[durangod]

Responding to your comments in the other thread was not meant as customer service.

 

Now i think we are getting someplace, now i better understand the mix up. I was looking for customer service and you did not deem that as customer service when your talking on a company website to a paying customer. That is where the block is Infopro, i see that as exactly what defines customer service arena, and you just see it as being administrator.

 

I guess its just the way we see things different is all.

[Infopro]

Now i think we are getting someplace, now i better understand the mix up. I was looking for customer service and you did not deem that as customer service when your talking on a company website to a paying customer. That is where the block is Infopro, i see that as exactly what defines customer service arena, and you just see it as being administrator.

 

I guess its just the way we see things different is all.

 

We are getting nowhere here Dave, clearly.

 

You were not looking for customer service, you were mad at them because they did not like your idea, you say so yourself in the other thread. And, you were calling them names. You got mad at them for no good reason. The original issue was your mistake, not WHMCS Support.

 

I responded, you disliked my responses. No customer, on any forum, should need to resort to name calling.

 

 

 

Oh wait a second, maybe we are getting somewhere! I think I see the problem here more clear now. Instead of responding, you'd rather I just delete stuff, hide it, after you've had your chance to bash the company and its support team.

 

Sorry, I won't do that. I never delete anything unless it's off topic in a thread, spam, or requested delete by the original poster who made the thread. I'd rather try and discuss why you shouldn't be calling those trying to help you, "monkeys".

 

Dave, you and I see things exactly the same here. You were wrong, you admit it, but would rather make me out as the bad guy here.

 

Can I come by your forums and bash your company and call you a monkey? I doubt it.

 

 

I've enjoyed our talk here guys. But this is a rehash of the other thread. If any of you needs to speak directly to my Boss, please open a ticket. Short of that, it's time to move past this topic. Jaw dropping or not.

[durangod]

You were not looking for customer service, you were mad at them because they did not like your idea

 

LMAO OMG, im just laughing here because you are so far off base its pathetic, you really think i wrote all that and im so petty i was upset because they did not like my idea. OMG you really really dont get it and you are so wrong. I would never waiste my time like that on an idea like it or not.

 

I was upset because of the reason i stated, i was upset because from the beginning they led me down the wrong path and did not care. If you read the conversation between me and james that night this one

 

http://forum.whmcs.com/showthread.php?66683-I-have-a-way-to-run-client-side-server-status-without-shell_exec-Interested&p=289450#post289450

 

post number 16 i clearly say that i am writing them a letter because they wasted my time for 3 days.

 

That is why i was mad i could care less if they liked my idea or not. I only included the idea in the ticket because i wanted them to know what i was doing in case they had another way. I was upset because as soon as i told my idea to james he immediatly said, whats your issue, it raised a red flag. But when i showed it to support it raised no flag, no what are you doing, no sorry you dont need to do that. Just totally blew off the whole reason i was doing it and the whole reason for the ticket and sayd oh just put it over in features here is the link without even asking me (as james did) what is going on why do you feel you have to do that.

 

It was never about the file i did, it was about they were so out of touch with the issue they didnt care or dig for the real issue.

 

You so make me laugh cause you think it was all about that stupid file i did, that is just so sad that you think that.

 

And i do see exactly what your doing, your being this way because you want this to go on so you can justify your closing it, you want to get my goat so i will respond to you so you can justify your position, well i will tell you Infopro it wont work, i will not reply to any more of your threads, the facts speak for themselfs, your not doing this to Bubka3.

 

What sadder is that Bubka3 made a very valid post and yet you certainly found a way to delute that didnt you. And you can come by my forum any day, say anything thats the truth and i wont shut you down, because i have nothing to hide.

 

Bubka3 my apologies i did not figure out what he was trying to do here until now, i guess i should have never posted on your thread because i should know by now you cant predict what delusional people will do. Some people are much better at being mischievious and sneaky than i will ever be.

 

Sorry that your great post got deluted and that i let that happen..

 

Im done with you Infopro, i have to be the bigger man here, say whatever you want from this point forward. Im done with you and i will not reply to anything you say on this thread again. Bye bye ...

Edited January 18, 2013 by durangod

[openmind]

The only thing I see here being jaw dropping is the amount of time people have wasted on the subject.

 

If I'm that unhappy with any service and I don't care if it's one I'm spending a couple of pounds or thousands of pounds per month then I move on and they lose my business. Ranting and posting tirades on forums gets no one anywhere, taking my money elsewhere does.

 

And for the record, the level of support I have recieved over the 4+ years I've been using WHMCS has been spot on...

[durangod]

The only thing I see here being jaw dropping is the amount of time people have wasted on the subject.

 

If I'm that unhappy with any service and I don't care if it's one I'm spending a couple of pounds or thousands of pounds per month then I move on and they lose my business. Ranting and posting tirades on forums gets no one anywhere, taking my money elsewhere does.

 

And for the record, the level of support I have recieved over the 4+ years I've been using WHMCS has been spot on...

 

 

I understand openmind, part of me feels the same way, but unfortunately i cant just close the doors on my new business because of that. If i drop the software im done, washed up , finished, bankrupt. I have sunk all i have into this. Next time though i will not post it on the forum to try to resolve and get attention. Next time i will write corp directly which is prob what i should have done this time. I still do believe things will get better and that they have good intentions just didnt get it right this time and thats really all any customer wants to here from someone important in the company is, sorry about that we value you as a customer.

 

Also folks this is one reason china is kicking our tails in almost everything. About a year ago i had a problem with an item made in china. I found the website and they sent me a replacement and the replacement was horrible, worse than the first one. So i says forget the website, i wrote the corp office. Took a while i think it was a month or so later but i got a call from the VP of sales who talked to me about the problem. He assured me that every customer no matter if they spend 5 bucks or 50,000 dollars is important. And folks thats why they are leading the world...

[Infopro]

I agree with Phil.

 

 

 

 

That's all folks. Back to business.