Upcoming: Plan Comparison Mod r2

[Lawrence]

I am working on a new plan comparison page after purchasing Sparky's and being completely dissatisfied with the code and flexibility of it (it was nowhere near what the screenshots described).

 

Mine will be fully open source and compatible with the WHMCS currency system and displaying hosting packages by groups. Only cPanel will be officially supported.

 

A beta of the work so far can be seen on our site @

 

http://www.lcwsoft.com/plans3.php

[sparky]

@ Lawrence: The version that is on the site at the moment says nothing about doing multi currency and it clearly says that the tpl provided is an example and that some editing of "your" template is required.

 

There is an update that now does full multi-currency which I only need to update the readme.txt file. It works a little differently with the include now being in your template instead of the php file which means that you can retrieve the smarty tag values of the product fields available.

 

Had you cared to ask first by opening a support ticket for help with it I could have advised you of this. I will contact you about this shortly.

[BAJI26]

The Mulit-Currency does work in Sparky's Mod. Acutally I can change the currency all over my site not only the cart!

[Lawrence]

As of the time I purchased it, it did not support those features and the template is a hack at best.

 

I have asked for a refund twice: once it was ignored completely, the 2nd time it was denied because he claims I asked for a refund due to the lack of support for multi-currency (which I did not, but rather due to the misrepresentation that I was getting a complete template, not just a basic one) and "because it did do what the description said with the V3 version and now it still does what it says in the new V4 version."

 

The fact remains it doesn't do what it leads you to believe out of the box, and I simply want my money back. That is not an unreasonable request.

[Lawrence]

Please do not pollute this thread with further communications. Please PM me.

[BAJI26]

Please do not pollute this thread with further communications. Please PM me.

 

You are funny! "Pollute"

 

I used it in V3 and it was exactly what was described maybe you expected more but that not the developers' fault.

 

I'm using it in V4 and it does support mulit-currency. Its a mod/addon not a complete system so why would you expect more than an example and instructions of use.

 

If you want it implemented in your site I believe he would do for a modest fee!

Edited June 11, 2009 by BAJI26

[sparky]

Please do not pollute this thread with further communications. Please PM me.

You are right this is not the place for this and nor is a PM

but you did post this here in a public place to start with so I believe that I have the right to respond.

As of the time I purchased it, it did not support those features and the template is a hack at best.

Well that really speaks for its self... if you knew that then why did you purchase it? Most people would open a ticket and ask if they are not sure.

I have asked for a refund twice: once it was ignored completely,

Hi Lawrence

The original download is still for an earlier version and does not have the updates for the multi-currency.

As it clearly says the template supplied is only an example.

 

I do have the latest version here now that I only have to finish the readme file that is full multi-currency.

Please respond to this ticket and I will attach the latest version for you and explain to you what the changes are.

 

Steve

 

TsHosting Administrator

Ignored... I think this is more of an offer to help!!

the 2nd time it was denied because he claims I asked for a refund due to the lack of support for multi-currency (which I did not, but rather due to the misrepresentation that I was getting a complete template, not just a basic one) and "because it did do what the description said with the V3 version and now it still does what it says in the new V4 version."

Hi Steve,

 

Perhaps so, but the site advertises one thing and the deliverables are

different. I was unable to wait due to time constraints, and have ended

up coding my own solution.

 

Please refund this immediately.

 

Regards,

Lawrence

Hi Lawrence

>>It was falsely advertised as showing all sorts of extra stuff that it does not by default.

 

It was not falsely advertised as it was for WHMCS V3.8 and it never said anywhere that it supported V4 Multi-Currency.

If you happened to look at the hosting page on my site , yes you would have seen that the multi-currency was working as that was were I was developing the new version.

 

>>Please refund this immediately.

 

Sorry but no I can't refund you because it did do what the description said with the V3 version and now it still does what it says in the new V4 version.

Just because you started coding your own version does not warrant a refund.

 

The new update for V4 is now released and available in your clientarea.

 

Steve

 

TsHosting Administrator

The fact remains it doesn't do what it leads you to believe out of the box, and I simply want my money back. That is not an unreasonable request.

 

There is or was no misrepresentation whatsoever or anything to say that it works "out of the box". The script does exactly what it was intended to do.

 

• For the old version for whmcs V3.8: You include the comparison file in your custom php file and the smarty variables are available in the custom template.
  

 

• For the new version for whmcs V4: You include the comparison file directly into any of your whmcs templates and the smarty variables are available in that template and also supports multi-currency.
  

As was also stated, the included template is an "example". You may not like the look of it, but as stated an example of how to use the variables and the screenshot was once again, an example of what can be done.

Also as clearly stated "Some editing is required in your template file"

What part of "Some editing is required in your template file" do you not understand?

 

You also stated that you had removed and destroyed all copies of the script.

Fair enough... but then you downloaded the latest version of the mod.

11/06/2009 04:31 AEST Product Download - comparison.zip - Remote IP: 174.XXX.90.XXX - User ID: 290

Note: Parts of your IP was removed. More detailed information is available from my server logs.

So you have the latest version of the mod and you also want your money back!! something here doesn't add up.

 

If you want to continue to make this public then just reply, I have nothing to hide.

 

As I said when I responded to your paypal dispute,

"I am sorry but I will not refund you for this... however I can still offer you help to edit your template using the mod..."

Note: last bit removed because of forum rules.

Edited June 11, 2009 by sparky

[Roger]

Hang in there Steve...Got to be a full moon....

[Lawrence]

You are right this is not the place for this and nor is a PM

but you did post this here in a public place to start with so I believe that I have the right to respond.

 

Well that really speaks for its self... if you knew that then why did you purchase it? Most people would open a ticket and ask if they are not sure.

 

Ignored... I think this is more of an offer to help!!

 

 

 

There is or was no misrepresentation whatsoever or anything to say that it works "out of the box". The script does exactly what it was intended to do.

 

• For the old version for whmcs V3.8: You include the comparison file in your custom php file and the smarty variables are available in the custom template.
  

 

• For the new version for whmcs V4: You include the comparison file directly into any of your whmcs templates and the smarty variables are available in that template and also supports multi-currency.
  

As was also stated, the included template is an "example". You may not like the look of it, but as stated an example of how to use the variables and the screenshot was once again, an example of what can be done.

Also as clearly stated "Some editing is required in your template file"

What part of "Some editing is required in your template file" do you not understand?

 

You also stated that you had removed and destroyed all copies of the script.

Fair enough... but then you downloaded the latest version of the mod.

So you have the latest version of the mod and you also want your money back!! something here doesn't add up.

 

If you want to continue to make this public then just reply, I have nothing to hide.

 

As I said when I responded to your paypal dispute,

"I am sorry but I will not refund you for this... however I can still offer you help to edit your template using the mod..."

Note: last bit removed because of forum rules.

 

Hi Sparky,

 

I fully admit that I did look at the latest copy, to verify that it supported what you said. Still, it does not change the fact you misled potential signups with the lack of notice on your site that the screenshot (of the template) was only an example. Therefore, you did falsely advertise your mod.

 

A post on a forum is not sufficient to advise people that the screenshot (of the template) is just an example. You have to make it known on the product details on your site as well (which you did not). Your failure to do so is not my fault, nor should I be expected to suffer for it. My only mistake was not reading every bit of text on this forum about your mod, that is it.

 

And you did ignore my request. I did not want help, I just wanted you to cancel my license and refund my money back.

 

Here is the screenshot from your site:

http://www.lcwsoft.com/sparky/comparrison.jpg

 

Here are screenshots from your site's order page (Google cache from June 6th):

http://www.lcwsoft.com/sparky/comparison_google_pre.jpg

http://www.lcwsoft.com/sparky/comparison_google.jpg

 

Notice how nowhere does it say anything about the screenshot (of the template) as just being a sample.

 

And now for the current order page:

http://www.lcwsoft.com/sparky/comparison_current_p1.jpg

http://www.lcwsoft.com/sparky/comparison_current_p2.jpg

 

Only now does it say "the screenshot is only an example of what can be done with this mod".

 

Sorry to say, but you have been caught in a lie. I will be escalating this with PayPal, just out of my desire to right a wrong.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Lawrence
clarification of details

[Impact-John]

Here is the screenshot from your site:

http://www.lcwsoft.com/sparky/comparrison.jpg

 

Here are screenshots from your site's order page (Google cache from June 6th):

http://www.lcwsoft.com/sparky/comparison_google_pre.jpg

http://www.lcwsoft.com/sparky/comparison_google.jpg

there is nothing about the screenshot that shows different to how it comes out of the box so what exactly are you talking about the first ss you show is how it works plain and simple.

this is just funny it tells you right in the description that your template files will need to be edited that is self explanitory and the mode does exactly what it says it does i run it and from day one it has done what it says also on a side note the update is there why aare you crying about it exactly. Also you are kinda bound by these as you aggreed to the terms of service of his site when you signed up

 

All payments to TsHosting are non refundable. This includes any one time setup fees and subsequent charges regardless of usage.

 

 

to steve

 

steve bro your products have always delivered the exact representation of what you say it does and also speaking from experience here everyone i have alot of steves mods and they are by far the best ones i have seen and very small costs for them. I also say in defense of the programmer if the product is an order that once paid you get full source code you are not getting money back cause you have source code and can do what ever you want at time of purchase people like this is what ruin the availability of source code products and will in time make all programmers / coders encrypt there work every time. you pay for an unencrypted product you should not be able to ask for a refund once the product has been prdered as you have access to the product and its code as soon as payment is sent through end of discussion.

 

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK STEVE

im sure i speak for alot of memebers here when i say

 

WE ARE BEHIND YOU 100% AND ALWAYS WILL BE.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Impact-John

[Lawrence]

steve bro your products have always delivered the exact representation of what you say it does and also speaking from experience here everyone i have alot of steves mods and they are by far the best ones i have seen and very small costs for them. I also say in defense of the programmer if the product is an order that once paid you get full source code you are not getting money back cause you have source code and can do what ever you want at time of purchase people like this is what ruin the availability of source code products and will in time make all programmers / coders encrypt there work every time. you pay for an unencrypted product you should not be able to ask for a refund once the product has been prdered as you have access to the product and its code as soon as payment is sent through end of discussion.

 

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK STEVE

im sure i speak for alot of memebers here when i say

 

WE ARE BEHIND YOU 100% AND ALWAYS WILL BE.

 

Um... what the hell are you getting on with?

 

Look at the screenshots. Before the most recent version (the second one I downloaded and looked at, as I confirmed above), no such statement existed on the site. It merely said some editing is required. Get your facts correct. some would be considered along the lines of changing the title tag, or editing some styles to adjust widths and fonts to more cleanly integrate into your site.

 

The TOS statement you quoted:

 

All payments to TsHosting are non refundable. This includes any one time setup fees and subsequent charges regardless of usage.

 

1) makes no reference to his mods and

2) is illegal.

 

I get ripped off, and I am in the wrong because I would not use his product and decided to code my own?

 

His code is encrypted (at least the majority of it is), so insinuating that I stole his work is an insult to me and impossible for me to do. If you actually use the mod, you would know that.

 

If it comes down to me having to show my code to prove my innocence, so be it. I actually do have nothing to hide.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Lawrence
dis-proving baseless and incorrect information

[Lawrence]

The short story is:

 

I purchased a product that turned out to be insufficient for my needs. I attempted to return it (cancel my license) and be refunded (which customer protection laws entitle me to). I asked politely for a refund, and the request was ignored. I asked again and got denied.

 

I am forced to escalate it, all over $10 freakin' dollars (AUD, roughly $9 CAD to me)?? Whether or not Steve is a good coder is not in question, but his customer relations skills leave much to be desired.

[bubbasheeko]

I myself use one of Steve's mod's and have not complaints. Keep up the great work!

[Impact-John]

i do use the comparison mod and it is not encrypted unless he changed it in the recent weeks because of people that want to order download than ask fro refunds after they recieve the code and yes the TOS does cover the mods as it clearly states

 

All payments to TsHosting are non refundable.

All payments

All payments

 

i hope that clears that up for you and the way the image looks doesnt mean crap as he is not obligated to say it is a example because he clearly states in that image you sent that some editing in your template file will need to be done. Seriously the childish banter can stop at any time now his TOS covers all payments ill make that strong again for you.

 

on a side note that customer protection laww would cover you in the way of a canada to canada base sales transaction not a canada to austrailia just FYI

Edited June 12, 2009 by Impact-John

[Lawrence]

i do use the comparison mod and it is not encrypted unless he changed it in the recent weeks because of people that want to order download than ask fro refunds after they recieve the code and yes the TOS does cover the mods as it clearly states

 

All payments to TsHosting are non refundable.

All payments

All payments

 

i hope that clears that up for you and the way the image looks doesnt mean crap as he is not obligated to say it is a example because he clearly states in that image you sent that some editing in your template file will need to be done. Seriously the childish banter can stop at any time now his TOS covers all payments ill make that strong again for you.

 

Again, such a statement is in direct violation of customer protection laws, therefore illegal and unenforceable. I am not an idiot.

 

Childish banter? You and Steve are the ones who attacked me here. I posted that I was creating my own plan comparison mod as I found his to be lacking in code (perhaps I didn't specify I was only referring to the template, as everything else was encoded) and flexibility (it requires duplication of code over and over in the template, as where mine stores it in a loop and simply outputs it as needed).

 

I am all for defending one's reputation, but starting a pointless war over $10 is what is childish. Any professional would simply cancel, refund and move on. Steve did not, and has chosen to attack me instead.

 

EDIT: The statement is both in violation of regulations in Australia's "Trade Practices Act 1974" and Canadian consumer protection laws.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Lawrence
clarification that TOS is illegal in both seller's and buyer's country

[Impact-John]

I am working on a new plan comparison page after purchasing Sparky's and being completely dissatisfied with the code and flexibility of it (it was nowhere near what the screenshots described).

 

As of the time I purchased it, it did not support those features and the template is a hack at best.

 

Sorry Bro that is the original attack plain and simple you brought this here and now are trying to get out of the heat cause you didnt expect or realize the respect this forum has for Steve.

and why should any coder openly give the source to his work on the tpl file and than just say ok you can have the code for free ill refund your money aint gonna happen ever plain and simple and your argument is that it was not as it said actually it is exactly as it said cause he states some editing of your template will be needed plain and simple and he does have the right to refuse refunds for openly downloadable programs or code or mods as once you pay you already get access to said product on a hosting account the account can be cancelledsuspended or which ever you want this way you already have the code in hand so have fun trying with paypal if you have that much time to waste for

all over $10 freakin' dollars (AUD, roughly $9 CAD to me)

cause paypal is just gonna walk away on that amount of money and the fact his terms ste that becuse his products are open source its like saying i bought underware take them home wear them for two days and than not like them and i can return them guess what you cant but i bet you have tried that as well havent you.

[Lawrence]

Sorry Bro that is the original attack plain and simple you brought this here and now are trying to get out of the heat cause you didnt expect or realize the respect this forum has for Steve.

and why should any coder openly give the source to his work on the tpl file and than just say ok you can have the code for free ill refund your money aint gonna happen ever plain and simple and your argument is that it was not as it said actually it is exactly as it said cause he states some editing of your template will be needed plain and simple and he does have the right to refuse refunds for openly downloadable programs or code or mods as once you pay you already get access to said product on a hosting account the account can be cancelledsuspended or which ever you want this way you already have the code in hand so have fun trying with paypal if you have that much time to waste for

 

cause paypal is just gonna walk away on that amount of money and the fact his terms ste that becuse his products are open source its like saying i bought underware take them home wear them for two days and than not like them and i can return them guess what you cant but i bet you have tried that as well havent you.

 

I know you have the best of intentions, but there are not one, but 2 fatal flaws in your argument:

 

1) The mod is NOT open source. It is ionCube encoded and was in both 1.0.1 and 1.0.2 when I saw them. Only the template and a shell hosting.php page were open. The guts (functions and such) were all encoded.

 

2) He has no right to refund a refund. By both our country's laws, I am entitled to return (cancel) an unsatisfactory product and expect a refund.

 

Law > Terms on "some web site".

 

I am working on a new plan comparison page after purchasing Sparky's and being completely dissatisfied with the code and flexibility of it (it was nowhere near what the screenshots described).

No attack there. Everything I said was a fact.

 

As of the time I purchased it, it did not support those features and the template is a hack at best.

My response to Steve AFTER he attacked ME. Let me break it down.

 

"did not support those features" = 1.0.1 (which I paid for) did not support multiple currencies. 1.0.2 (which was released less than 24 hours ago and AFTER I asked for refund) appears to.

 

"template is a hack at best" = This is true as well. Instead of using a loop, he made it include code for each plan. That is a hack by any coder's definition.

 

Hopefully you will soon realize you are wrong.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Lawrence

[Impact-John]

2) He has no right to refund a refund. By both our country's laws, I am entitled to return (cancel) an unsatisfactory product and expect a refund.

 

1. If you offer merchandise for sale at a price that's higher than $25 at a location other than your normal place of business, such as at a flea market or a business expo, you should give customers a written receipt or copy of the sales contract and a notice of their right to cancel the sale within three days.

 

2. Other than the "three day rule," you aren't required by law to give any refunds on sales, but you may want to do so anyway to promote good customer relations. If you have a refund policy, you should post the written policy conspicuously in your location.

 

that there is the law he does not have to issue or indulge you with a refund

[BAJI26]

The screenshot merely point out how the mod looks functioning wid whcms.

 

Y you are the only one out of sooo many have a problem wid it.

 

That's your problem if you purchased the product thinking it could make the rain fall and then to find out you it didn't.

 

NO REFUND!

 

I wouldn't for the simple fact that you complained here first instead of opening a ticket and deal with it in private maybe Sparky would have given you something back but you came here making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Impact-John]

very well put baji26 total agreement with you 100 % and besides i like steve a little

[Lawrence]

1. If you offer merchandise for sale at a price that's higher than $25 at a location other than your normal place of business, such as at a flea market or a business expo, you should give customers a written receipt or copy of the sales contract and a notice of their right to cancel the sale within three days.

 

2. Other than the "three day rule," you aren't required by law to give any refunds on sales, but you may want to do so anyway to promote good customer relations. If you have a refund policy, you should post the written policy conspicuously in your location.

 

that there is the law he does not have to issue or indulge you with a refund

I don't know where you got that from, but neither set of laws says that you can arbitrarily deny a refund for an unsatisfactory product. If that was the case, my cable company could deny a refund for a period of time where the service did not work due to downtime or some other issue outside of my control.

 

For definitive proof, look at http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:e5SZ2W4LSVAJ:www.accc.gov.au/content/item.phtml%3FitemId%3D304501%26nodeId%3D04bc9aa47950c6358a6e573a1537af3d%26fn%3DAdvertising%2520%26%2520selling_A4%2520flyer_Jan07.pdf+Trade+Practices+Act+1974+refunds&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a

 

(it's a HTML version of an ACCC PDF.. Pdf's aren't loading in Firefox tonight for some reason).

 

2 excerpts:

 

Refunds

A business’ refund policy is the most visible sign of its commitment to

fair customer relations. The Trade Practices Act sets down minimum

entitlements for refunds, for example when the goods do not fit the

particular purpose stated to the buyer.

I think the last line covers this situation to the T.

 

E-Commerce

The internet is a new and exciting medium by which small business and consumers can do business. Retailers must remember that the same standards apply when doing business over the internet as they

do in any other transaction. It is important for consumers to ensure they have basic information about the business they are dealing with, and for small business to use best practices to give consumers the confidence to trade with them

Same standards apply? I guess that means he is bound by the Trades Practice Act as well

 

I think you should stop commenting, as you are only serving to make my case even better.

[Lawrence]

The screenshot merely point out how the mod looks functioning wid whcms.

 

Y you are the only one out of sooo many have a problem wid it.

 

That's your problem if you purchased the product thinking it could make the rain fall and then to find out you it didn't.

 

NO REFUND!

 

I wouldn't for the simple fact that you complained here first instead of opening a ticket and deal with it in private maybe Sparky would have given you something back but you came here making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

Umm.. I opened a ticket first and have the e-mails to prove that. I got ignored for my first refund request (I got offered help that I did not want), then denied on my 2nd attempt? Both times asked politely.

 

I come here and state intentions to make a rival mod, make 2 factual statements, and then proceed to get attacked by Steve, John and you?

 

Steve refused to do the right, and legally required, thing and simply process my refund request (in the ticket I opened BEFORE saying ANYTHING here). Then has the gall to attack me, as if I did something wrong.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Lawrence

[BAJI26]

Refunds

A business’ refund policy is the most visible sign of its commitment to

fair customer relations. The Trade Practices Act sets down minimum

entitlements for refunds, for example when the goods do not fit the

particular purpose stated to the buyer.

 

But it does exactly what it sates, and you know that the mod would not include whmcs and in the screen shot it show his "MOD" and Whmcs, so you knew that you were purchasing the functionality of the mod not everything in the screenshot... You know what Sparky send him a copy of whmcs with your hack in the, all he gotta do is enter his license #.

 

Maybe you could change his diaper too cause it seem all he's doing is crying about $10... I'll send you $2 will that keep you calm?

[Impact-John]

2) He has no right to refund a refund. By both our country's laws, I am entitled to return (cancel) an unsatisfactory product and expect a refund.

 

Actually NO you Dont.

 

You do not have to do anything for a buyer who has simply changed their mind and no longer wants the goods when there is nothing wrong with the goods. However, for goodwill you may wish to offer an exchange or a credit note or a refund. It is best to have a set policy and to stick to it so that all your customers are treated equally. Be careful not to get confused between your legal obligations and your goodwill policy. Be clear about your time limits for returning unsuitable goods. If you are going to change your goodwill policy at sale time you should let your customers know that your customer policy is different for sale goods.

 

that right there sums up everything in one giant nutshell

Edited June 12, 2009 by Impact-John

[Lawrence]

But it does exactly what it sates, and you know that the mod would not include whmcs and in the screen shot it show his "MOD" and Whmcs, so you knew that you were purchasing the functionality of the mod not everything in the screenshot... You know what Sparky send him a copy of whmcs with your hack in the, all he gotta do is enter his license #.

 

Maybe you could change his diaper too cause it seem all he's doing is crying about $10... I'll send you $2 will that keep you calm?

 

Must you be an ass? Obviously I knew that that it would not include the WHMCS header and footer. But it should include anything not specific to WHMCS itself (the same format comparison table), but alas it did not.

 

I requested a refund because I felt the product (the mod, in this case) was unsatisfactory for my purposes. Under Australian Trade Practices Act, that qualifies for a refund. Case closed.