Logged as Admin locale bug?

[yggdrasil]

I have noticed something with WHMCS which I'm not sure was true in the past. If you log in as a customer from the admin side, it logs in me into that account and I see everything in English. I'm not sure if that is because English is the default in my case or its just using the language set in my admin account, either way that is fine, except that if I make an action in the customer account, for example change a setting like change the payment method on an invoice, it flips the locale for that account to English. This is very annoying because now I'm afraid to even log into a customer account to see what they see and click anywhere (which I need to do to replicate some issues when they report them).

I noticed this because those customers now get the invoices and emails in English, and in their profile the language is switched to English. It would be nice if there was a way to set WHMCS to not change the locale on the account if logged as staff/admin, that means even if I manually hit the language selection while logged as the customer or make any action in what ever language. This would allow me to see the account in the customer language or just plain English but not actually change anything on his profile regarding his locale preference.

To resume, the profile locale should not be changed when logged as admin, even if you do change the language on the public site. The customer has set the language for a reason, and its just wrong to flip that by mistake as now the emails and even invoices in another language.

[brian!]

1 hour ago, yggdrasil said:

If you log in as a customer from the admin side, it logs in me into that account and I see everything in English. I'm not sure if that is because English is the default in my case or its just using the language set in my admin account,

that's because in v6, the "Login as Client" link just passed the clients email address...

href="../dologin.php?username={$clientsdetails.email|urlencode}"

in v7, it passes the admin language too...

href="../dologin.php?username={$clientsdetails.email|urlencode}&language={$adminLanguage}"

1 hour ago, yggdrasil said:

To resume, the profile locale should not be changed when logged as admin, even if you do change the language on the public site. The customer has set the language for a reason, and its just wrong to flip that by mistake as now the emails and even invoices in another language. 

I think it's that link that's the problem - if I set my admin language to Spanish; click that login link, it changes the Client's profile language from German to Spanish (in database)... it's doing that in v7.6.1 too.

even in v7.5.1 (which I think is your installed version), i'm seeing the client's language change from German to English - I don't even have to do anything in the client area, just the act of logging in (via summary link) is enough to change the client's language to English. 🙄

however, if I remove the language from the link (as per v6), then i'm seeing the client area in English anyway (my admin language), but changing invoice payment methods in the client area is having no effect on the profile language - I can see it updating the invoices table, but the clients table (where their language choice is stored) is unchanged.... I assume it works because you're not specifically changing the language via the URL so WHMCS will just continue to use the language already being used by you in the admin area.

so you could try editing the link in clientsummary.tpl (I think the link is the same in both Blend and v4) and see if that helps - i've got a feeling I raised something about this link in one of the early v7 beta f0rums, but I can't remember the thread (and it's likely in a hidden board anyway).

so whether the problem is purely the passing of the language in the link, or dologin.php not doing something it should with that passed language, I don't know... (the file is encoded!).

[yggdrasil]

I can completely understand if some people want this, for example passing the admin language to the link in case they don't understand the locale of the current customer but in my case I do, so I think I will remove what you pointed out. I prefer just to see the language the customer has set on his account.

I might have to test the other things you mentioned. I'm very sure that just logging in as admin does not change the customer account locale in my case. I tested this multiple times, I always see it on English (my setting) but then go back to the customer profile after logging out to check the locale (because I'm aware of the bug that flips it). Its when I click something on the account the locale switches. I might have hard coded the lang parameters in some URL's in the site for each language, so that could also be the cause for my setup but I will definitely change this behavior back to v6, v5 and before. I don't want to pass the language parameter on the admin login link. This could also explain why I didn't saw this occurring before but after I upgraded.

Personally, I don't like this new behavior. If the customer has his profile in French, I want to see it in French because the text might be different as well other content specific to that locale. Same if its Italian or just any language. The point is that in order to replicate or help a customer I need to see exactly what he/she does, even if I don't understand the language but then again its very likely this is not the case with any company either. If someone provides a locale in WHMCS its very likely that person or organization has a staff that also speaks the particular language (for support tickets and other things) so that person might be the one assigned to that case, or like in my situation, I speak all the languages I offer for customers. No reason to offer the site and service in something I don't understand and can't properly support.

If this is encoded, I guess WHMCS screwed us again. Because this is causing me problems and no way to change this back if its encoded. I now realize that 99% of my WHMCS problems are with their encoding and the constant changes they make (to the worse...). They keep changing behaviors from previous versions assuming this is the best approach without testing anything and without realizing if something was working for years in one way and nobody complained why change it...If this can't be fixed, the Login as Client in WHMCS will be basically another dead feature for me that I can't use anymore as it causes more issues than what it solves. And even if they fix stuff in the future, I trained myself mentally to never use some things anymore.

If you raise a ticket they will say its not a bug but its an intentional feature 🤮. This is what I find misleading about WHMCS in terms of new versions. The way it worked before can be considered a bug for those that want to pass the language but the new behavior can be a bug for those that don't want it this way. So basically what WHMCS does is removing one way of doing stuff for another. If this was indeed a new feature, they would offer it as a new option without removing the previous method. Just like with their new SEO URL which screwed me in a big way and still cannot fix some stuff. I ended up making hooks and PHP code everywhere to detect URL's and try to fix what WHMCS broke. A feature is if I as a WHMCS customer can select the new behavior on my installation, it has to be optional, free will to use it or not use it. Its not a feature if they remove how something worked in the past and decide to force the new method on everyone else.

WHMCS developers should listen to this, OPTIONS, OPTIONS, OPTIONS. Instead of removing and replacing code, just add check boxes with options on the admin side so people can select one or another method for how some things work. I know, its complex to have the same software working in different ways, but if you are not going to add yes and no options for stuff, then you are royalty screwing people because since most stuff is encoded we cannot change things even if we want. If they don't want to put options in place for settings, they should seriously not encode this stuff. And they are driving customers away, the more features you stop using with WHMCS over the years, the less you rely on the software. This is the way to lose loyal customers.

I find it surprising that most WHMCS users here on the forums are always new to WHMCS. They then vanish after a few months. This tells me WHMCS is just profiting from temporary customers, not long term customers.

Edited October 15, 2018 by yggdrasil

[brian!]

50 minutes ago, yggdrasil said:

If someone provides a locale in WHMCS its very likely that person or organization has a staff that also speaks the particular language (for support tickets and other things) so that person might be the one assigned to that case, or like in my situation, I speak all the languages I offer for customers. No reason to offer the site and service in something I don't understand and can't properly support.

i'd be inclined to think that most WHMCS users generally just leave the multiple languages there in case they get a customer who would use that language - and if they get a support question from them in a "foreign" language, then they'll go to Google Translate and use that to try to converse with them.

I know in pre-v7 versions, you could simply delete the language files to determine which languages are shown to the end-user; with v7, the automatic updater would restore those "missing" language files, so now you'd have to manipulate the dropdown array with a hook (which i've posted previously)... or update manually (not a bad option).

57 minutes ago, yggdrasil said:

If this is encoded, I guess WHMCS screwed us again. Because this is causing me problems and no way to change this back if its encoded.

I kind of threw that in as a red rag to a bull - I suspect it's more the passing of a language link in the URL causing this then something in dologin. 🐮

1 hour ago, yggdrasil said:

I might have hard coded the lang parameters in some URL's in the site for each language, so that could also be the cause for my setup but I will definitely change this behavior back to v6, v5 and before. 

that sounds very likely... one option would be to check, in the Smarty templates, if the current user is NOT a logged-in admin before changing languages in the URLs.

59 minutes ago, yggdrasil said:

And even if they fix stuff in the future, I trained myself mentally to never use some things anymore.

yeah, there are many features of WHMCS that I wouldn't touch as I know they're bugged, will never get fixed and so are best avoided.

1 hour ago, yggdrasil said:

Its not a feature if they remove how something worked in the past and decide to force the new method on everyone else.

as I said i another thread, it's their "we know best - take it or leave it" attitude that gets me... you have to be so careful before updating because they'll hint at what they've added.... but rarely even mention what's been removed.

1 hour ago, yggdrasil said:

If they don't want to put options in place for settings, they should seriously not encode this stuff.

I should mention that I was told by one of the devs a few months back that the main reason for the encoding was to prevent the code being altered by users (and hence making supporting more difficult), and not necessarily to hide their code.

1 hour ago, yggdrasil said:

I find it surprising that most WHMCS users here on the forums are always new to WHMCS. They then vanish after a few months. This tells me WHMCS is just profiting from temporary customers, not long term customers.

it would be interesting to know what the churn rate is for WHMCS - i've just tried some of my bookmarks of WHMCS users that i've replied to in here and a fair few of them are no longer using WHMCS...

[yggdrasil]

1 minute ago, brian! said:

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i'd be inclined to think that most WHMCS users generally just leave the multiple languages there in case they get a customer who would use that language - and if they get a support question from them in a "foreign" language, then they'll go to Google Translate and use that to try to converse with them.

That is just horrible and very unprofessional. What point is there in having WHMCS in all locales if the rest of your sales pages and help docs are not? Neither is customer support, billing, etc.

Quote

I know in pre-v7 versions, you could simply delete the language files to determine which languages are shown to the end-user; with v7, the automatic updater would restore those "missing" language files, so now you'd have to manipulate the dropdown array with a hook (which i've posted previously)... or update manually (not a bad option).

And this is exactly what I did. I only have all locales in my dev/testing installation. I removed all languages files I don't use or support and this is also why I don't use the auto updater and never will. Because the updater will never be aware of all the things I did, removed, added or changed. I don't want the auto updater feature, its just asking for troubles overwritten things.

Quote

I kind of threw that in as a red rag to a bull - I suspect it's more the passing of a language link in the URL causing this then something in dologin. 🐮

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as I said i another thread, it's their "we know best - take it or leave it" attitude that gets me... you have to be so careful before updating because they'll hint at what they've added.... but rarely even mention what's been removed.

But we don't really have a choice do we? Its not that I can decide to keep using v5 or v6 because WHMCS will not support it anymore with security fixes and since the code is not open you cannot patch or maintain it. We are forced to upgrade to each new release and personally I think they are deprecating old versions way to fast for the type of market they sell (business or entrepreneurs looking to start a new business). They should learn something from long term support like Microsoft or Red Hat. I don't say they should support their software for 10-15 years, but come on. 1 year is not enough, in particular when they take longer to fix some bugs. I was forced to upgrade WHMCS, otherwise I would still be on v6.

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I should mention that I was told by one of the devs a few months back that the main reason for the encoding was to prevent the code being altered by users (and hence making supporting more difficult), and not necessarily to hide their code.

That makes zero sense. I just received an email from Modules Garden 10 minutes ago in which they say they are dropping the pricing for their open code licenses as they see how popular they are getting. This makes absolutely sense in a world that is more developer friendly. I also asked another big company in the US why their WHMCS module its encoded and they said, "Yes, it was a controversial decision and we discussed this internally, probably not going to encode in the future but if you want I can give you the non encoded version." (I asked if I could get that after a NDA agreement and their answer was that). That company is exactly the sort of company I want to work with.

The reason this makes no sense from WHMCS developers is because someone that modifies the code knows what he/she is doing. Someone that is not a developer will not dare to change something and have hell break lose. Also, its stupidity to say this will lead to more support for WHMCS (which I suspect is their reason). Don't they know they can do a simple MD5 checksum on files and then just not support someone if they modified those files? Problem solved. Newbies that modify the code and break something, no support. For those that do, in most cases they also have a development installation. If I was WHMCS I would just start to work with partners and resellers again if they want to get rid of heavy support costs. Sell licenses, let others do the post sales. Again, this will lead to a bigger WHMCS ecosystem as other companies can also profit by giving consulting, developing or WHMCS support.

Anyone that modifies code or is a developer will has dev license which is free with WHMCS. And the first thing a developer will do is test a clean install to try to replicate the issues, if its not there, she/he is aware its something on his custom code. I can't possible believe this leads to WHMCS support reduction (encoding). To the contrary. I would had never open a ticket if I could solve things on my own except for very basic questions which a level 1 staff can answer by just providing canned replies to links from the docs. In either case it will lead to massive drop in support requests for several reasons (the tickets that WHMCS support can't solve in the first place...!!!). Advanced users will not open tickets for hidden code related problems and the newbies will get help here from developers here.

This community and the software will boom like a new plant because since everyone can see the changes, it means everyone can help everyone else as well. Maybe even have a monetary incentive here in the forums for the ones that help others the most. And sure, they can keep the license core encoded. I don't ask fully non encoding and I have nothing against IonCube either except when its abused by developers, its not suppose to be made to encoded everything just the critical files. I just ask for the rest of the stuff to be "modifiable". Seem to much to ask for a software you are paying? 

Even the gaming industry is heavily moving to DRM free games. Why? It causes way more issues than problem it solves. Its anti consumer and does not really stop piracy. If anything, people that pay WHMCS do it for a lot of reasons than just the files. Updates for one and the ecosystem of third party add-ons.

Why would anyone not pay modules garden or WHMCS a small fee to get yearly updates and support just in case they need to ask something? Even in India, where developers charge like a few bucks the hour, that is still more expensive with a few changes than a yearly fee. I know third world countries and trust me, something like $99 a year is not breaking the bank for anyone that actually uses WHMCS for business and not hobby. Anyone that does business will never have a problem paying fee that is affordable. And those companies that have developers modifying the code. Common, if they are already paying hundreds of dollars or thousands to modify a specific code, they will also have no problem paying a small update fee. It also leads to bigger brands and companies adopting WHMCS. Those big brands are the best sales persons in the world doing work for free for WHMCS, as newbies say, "what is XX company using?", WHMCS. Wow, then I will use that as their modifications and platform is great and it means I can do that in the future as well. If they can, I can. They just follow the pack!

And look cPanel? Does someone decides not to pay their license and pirate them because the code is open? Of course not. And look Plesk, gazillion more features but everyone is still on cPanel. Why? Its open, its very customizable and developer friendly, and has a huge ecosystem of third party integrations. Plesk is encoded and they charge for every single extra or addon. Result? cPanel is the world leader, Plesk will never be. If you want to create an ecosystem around your product you need to give in order to receive. More installations means more developers interested (as it means more money), open means more developers and more installations. It's a circle. One developer I talked said he was not interested on doing WHMCS modules anymore as he sold almost nothing vs something like Shopify, those customers paid more and he sold way more quantities. You see the problem? Even developers are not really that interested on WHMCS anymore, its harder to customize and it seems their market is shrinking in terms of active installations. And you need people making money with their sites using WHMCS in order to be able to afford those third party modules. 15 years old launching their summer hosting company with WHMCS will not cut it. They need active installations in the long run, that means business and people that actually make money for a living. And those people will never really be interested on WHMCS with the current state of other options available, not to even mention open source software. And bigger companies? They care little about budget software or price but flexibility, something WHMCS is opposed as a company. They try to be as inflexible as possible with everything.

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it would be interesting to know what the churn rate is for WHMCS - i've just tried some of my bookmarks of WHMCS users that i've replied to in here and a fair few of them are no longer using WHMCS...

Very low at this point. It would not surprise me if WHMCS is selling less than they ever did in their history. Price increases in the past and the limiting licenses by number of active accounts tells me they required more money from a less number of installations. Not to mention the changing from owned licenses to just lease. This is what companies do when income starts to drop, milk existing users. It never ends well unless new blood is coming...Of course I forgot. The market thing!!! That also means they are looking for new business income. What does this tell you? Finances are not looking great. Let me guess. Drop in sales and active customers. I'm almost entirely sure of that today with some things they are doing. They are reacting in an aggressive way towards a market that is changing. Existing customers suffer. Technology companies like WHMCS that don't adapt to quick changes die.

In the past every hosting company that offered a reseller service had WHMCS as bundle. Today most don't. I assume that means a huge drop in licenses. And then you have all the big cloud vendors that are destroying small hosting companies left and right. Even less market. And then you have WHMCS that focuses all their developing efforts on commodity products like domains or certificates...Seriously, who buys WHMCS to just sell domains or certificates? You would need to sell hundreds per day just to be profitable or even compete vs more established companies. There is no money in an industry in which domains make cents of profit/year and certificates are free. Most people that moved out of WHMCS did because they never focused on VPS, cloud or servers (this was already 3-4 years back...). They still don't have hourly metered and doing dedicated servers with WHMCS is a joke. Not a single way to configure things (no field logic) and while you can do hourly or metered billing with hooks and the API, it requires to build your own modules around WHMCS. And then WHMCS makes the amazing decision to remove things from open files and encode even more stuff !!! Hostile towards their power users and developers.

Just look this community? I remember WHMCS forums in the past years (I always landed on their forums searching things, while I was not a customer yet), it had like thousands of people visiting and hundreds active at any point of the day. Just look the participation rates now. Its what? 5 or 10 active people? The rest come and go. I think WHMCS will have to seriously start to accept some of the things I and others says or they will have a very rough time ahead. cPanel is not going to save them either, unless they change as a company, we can only hope they sell the company off and the new owners makes the required changes to turn the company into a very profitable business again. Its that or their competition will just keep gaining more and more traction. And by competition I mean every other software that lets you sell online, including services. WHMCS is not unique to services anymore.

The people that do make money with other stuff, like selling software, or intangible things, or other sort of IT services & cloud products are not using WHMCS anymore. I know a lot of other companies some small, some very big brands, that used WHMCS and they don't anymore. That should tell you something. Some run custom things now, some moved to other products. But almost all of them agree with one thing. The company is very closed to feedback and suggestion (hard to work with), bugs are an issue and they can't modify WHMCS to fit their business, eventually they hit a road block, everyone that grows to a certain point will find WHMCS not workable anymore. (let me guess...encoding...) so they move to open source in most cases or a product that can be modified and adapted to their business. At that point pricing is not a problem for them anymore. The road block is causing them more loss of revenue.