Rich Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hi, I currently own a license for WHMCS myself and would like to offer it to our reseller hosting clients as well but the pricing is greatly turning me off and in such a competitive market it makes it impossible to afford, especially with the larger resellers who already have a high volume of clients and are offering it for free. ClientExec is charging $4/license with the purchase of 5 licenses compared to $13.60/license with the purchase of 5 licenses for WHMCS. Just asking you to consider a lower entry price to make it easier for the smaller hosts trying to break in to the market. Around $8/license for 5 licenses would be acceptable and I believe this would turn over much more hosts from ClientExec to WHMCS to makeup for the change of pricing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonhk Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Hey, I'm with rich on this one, the entry level reseller package definitely does not attract small hosting companies that are looking to start selling WHMCS licenses to resellers. We are currently reselling ClientExec and have had clients ask when we would be offering WHMCS. A cheaper reseller package would definitely get the sales going 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHMCS CEO Matt Posted November 17, 2008 WHMCS CEO Share Posted November 17, 2008 Offering lower prices would only devalue WHMCS as a product offering for resellers. If like your example, pretty much every host offers it, it doesn't make you stand out from the competition. Whereas as it is, if you offer WHMCS, you have to be committed to it and it's much more of a USP for your service as a result. Matt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 (edited) I understand that and while it's not too bad of a price for hosts who can jump right in to the 50+ licenses due to their volume, it is still what I think way too costly to be even close to affordable for the smaller volume of licenses. We currently only have 1 server and our base plan(and most popular) retails at $24/month(which is even considered higher then average compared to other reseller hosts), minus the license cost for whmcs your instantly cut down to a profit of $10.40/month/reseller. Factor in space/bandwidth & support costs and it is impossible to make a decent earning off of those slim margins, and if we raise our prices any higher it will definitely cut our sign up rate. Just saying it's something to consider and I think you'd be surprised from how much of an increase in business you would get. You'd still keep your larger clients due to the quality and demand of the product and you'd be gaining hundreds or thousands of additional clients from smaller companies. Edited November 18, 2008 by Rich 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSG Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 That depends on your business model. Why not start of with 10 license? Sell it as an addon to your clients and build that up. When you get one for $12.80, sell them at $10, I'm sure you will get pretty good sales, even if at a $2.80 loss. When you need more license, upgrade and you will have more, and cheaper! Thats how business works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyhosting Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Business works on profit margins and NOT loses. No business can ever work if you sell items less than what it cost you, also can you imaging your accountants face when you present your accounts at the bankruptcy meeting as this is where you will end up when your business goes bust for selling cheaper than your purchase costs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSG Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 You are wrong. Making a loss is temporary, not permanent. Its like selling domains under cost and charge renewal rates for a profit, like an investment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrat Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 @easyhost Laptopfreak is quite correct. This mechanism is called a 'Loss leader' and is a proven business strategy when used correctly. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader And googling up 'loss leader' will give you a wealth of further information on the subject. Using a 'Loss leader' strategy has nothing to do with not making profit. In fact, when used well, overall profits can increase significantly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSG Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Many host, registrar or anything that has recurring bills does so. Some host give the first month free, and profit back in the following months. However, some people sell the product at a way too low cost, or wrong strategy, causing them to lose instead of gain. And as redrat had said, if you know how to use it, it will generate a lot more profit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyhosting Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I know what a loss leader is I have been trading for well over 30 years both offline and online and to me loss leaders never work 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Wade Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Obviously if everything you sell is at below cost then you will go out of business. The purpose of a loss leader is to gain business and then profit on the overall customer account, not that one item. For instance, I have to pay a per seat license on the site builder I use. I give access to this site builder for free to my customers. It's a loss leader. I make back the money on other items I sell them however. Loss leaders do work, you just have to know how to work it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSG Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Yeah. Let me give you another example. I sell reseller hosting. I charge it below cost for the first few months. I charge a little bit higher for IP address, WHMCS, SSL, domain names etc. Profit back on where you loss in other addon products. Or profit back on your main product. If you are getting WHMCS at $12.80, you can charge $2.80 more on your regular packages and charge $10 as addon. Thats how things works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrat Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) A loss leader strategy must be accompanied by appropriate marketing tactics to support it and make it work. You can't just set a loss leader, do nothing and expect results. Prior research and planning is essential to ensure viability. The simple fact is that loss leader strategies do work for those who go about them diligently and professionally. And they are used every day by some of the world's leading companies not just to increase profitability. They are often employed as a competitive marketing tactic as well and can be very effective in that role. But there are many reasons behind using them. Too many to list here. Of course, they need to be financed but isn't that what a marketing budget is for? To state that loss leader strategies are useless is to fly in the face of centuries of previous experience that has proven that there is a place for them and they can literally mean the difference being surviving or going bust. Any half decent accountant knows this and it is often they who recommend such strategies precisely because they can make excellent financial good sense. It really doesn't matter whether you use them or not. But those who do are far from all stupid. Quite the reverse. I am mindful of one analogy anyway that appears illogical but was, literally, a life saving bit of lateral thinking. American test pilots working on breaking the sound barrier were entering into maximum velocity dives to get sufficient speed, pulling the joystick back to pull up but just smashing into terra firma and dying like flies. The guy who actually broke the sound barrier and survived did the unthinkable and pushed the joystick forward. That pulled the plane up! A loss leader is just bait as advertising is, as discounting is, as bundling is, as copy writing is, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. The list of tricks is massive. If an advertising campaign doesn't work it doesn't mean that all advertising doesn't work. Edited December 23, 2008 by redrat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrat Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Ran out of editing time trying to add another point on the subject. All of the big supermarkets, Tesco, Sainsburys, etc., use loss leaders daily, typically, 'Buy one - get one free!'. They do it because it is scientifically known and proven to be incredibly effective. The objectives may vary and are not just about making short term profit. They may be 'investing' in brand development which is budgeted for. And many other scenarios besides. Enough said. They work! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSG Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Those buy one get one free are actually lies. If you check the real price before their offer, its actually a lot cheaper, they just charge a little more, and their profit on both products is insignificant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickendippers Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 ...and they just pay the suppliers less for products that are on offer. But I digress. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSG Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 They always get a lot of stocks when they make this kind of offer, get cheaper prices too.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHG Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Why would they lower the price? So more people with thousands of questions can flood support? it is already bad enough trying to get a good support reply the first one or two times in a ticket string. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyhosting Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Buy One Get One Free are not loss leaders. I use this all the time on my sterett stalls. example i was selling fishing nets at 50p each and these were selling slow, so i increased the price to 1 pound Buy One Get One FREE and they sold like hotcakes, these are not loss leaders as you are getting your original price for each item. I have been trading over 30 years and know how to work loss leaders and these never work for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSG Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Buy One Get One Free are not loss leaders. I use this all the time on my sterett stalls. example i was selling fishing nets at 50p each and these were selling slow, so i increased the price to 1 pound Buy One Get One FREE and they sold like hotcakes, these are not loss leaders as you are getting your original price for each item. I have been trading over 30 years and know how to work loss leaders and these never work for me. Thats pure marketting... Lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicToMeyeZR Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Here is my problem with reselling rates. The reseller should be providing the Support to their customers, not whmcs. So if whmcs isn't providing the support, why is the reseller paying whmcs for their support for every license the reseller buys? The reason CE is only $20 for 4 license's is because the reseller provides ALL the downloads, as well as ALL the support for the CE install, not CE.. So I am guessing that whmcs provides the support and the downlaods for all the reseller's customers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyhosting Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 support is usually two-tier, as a reseller you should know a little about hosting and some of the minor problems that can occur. As a reseller you are responsible for your customers and keeping them happy, so your customers will initially contact you for support and most of the time you shopuld be able to sort this out either through your own knowledge or this forum, if you cant sort it out then you will send a support ticked to WHMCS through your clientarea with them, then WHMCS will send you the solution, which you will then pass this onto your own client. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact-John Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 So I am guessing that whmcs provides the support and the downlaods for all the reseller's customers? I am very sure on this one here as i was with a reseller for 5.95 less per month through one of my server providers and ill tell you due to the next statement i am now direct with whmcs " i asked on december 18th to have the 3.8.1 files uploaded so i can download as i had no physical access to the whmcs client side here to get them myself and as of january 7th i still had no files loaded most companies only allow senior admins access to there resellers whmcs area and getting in touch with them are impossible and now also in my eyes who cares about an extra 5.95 per month to get the support and direct influence from matt and his staff instead of going through a reseller (been there ) no thanks anymore is well worth the 5.95 per month to me in my eyes" so no i dont believe from my experience you get direct access to the client side of whmcs area only the reseller does and you have to go through the ladder to get want you want and that is not for me at all. P.S Matt and Crew keep up the great work on the progress of whmcs and the amazing support you all offer it is well above and beyond anything i have imagined . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyhosting Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 If you use WHMCS, then your clients can contact you through support tickets with any problems or advice. some advice you should be able to give your clients also with some minor configuration problems, yes you cannot do these direct in your clients area, unless they give you their login detaisl, but you can give them guidance etc on how to sort out some problems, other problems etc that you cannot help with, then you will be able to use your own client area with WHMCS to get advice from Matt and his team and then pass this advice onto your own client. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact-John Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 yeah well i like to not have middle men now from what i have encountered to each there own i presume 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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