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PixelPaul

why are you still using WHMCS after what they did?

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Hello all,

I am curious, why are people still using WHMCS after what they did with the pricing and customers so called "lifetime" licenses?

Edited by PixelPaul

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9 hours ago, PixelPaul said:

Hello all,

I am curious, why are people still using WHMCS after what they did with the pricing and customers so called "lifetime" licenses?

Because there have no best alternative regarding feature & 3rd party modules.

Edited by Biswashost

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Not for very much longer. There's nothing that WHMCS offers me that I can't manage myself manually using spreadsheets and a calendar. Yes, it's admin, but I don't have that many clients, so to continue to pay the ridiculous monthly cost for this system is a bit daft. 

I am going to build my own manual system of billing but it seems that a lot of my data is being stored in places other than the mySQL database that WHMCS is supposed to run off.  I am not happy that I can't export from phpmyadmin any data pertaining to my clients' domain names, the renewal dates or even what packages they have. 

Very fishy.

 

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3 hours ago, Cowboy said:

I can't export from phpmyadmin any data pertaining to my clients' domain names, the renewal dates or even what packages they have. 

You sure?

"tbldomains" has domains, tblhosting has packages and so on. 
What makes you believe you can't export anything?

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6 hours ago, Cowboy said:

There's nothing that WHMCS offers me that I can't manage myself manually using spreadsheets and a calendar.

I think you're using WHMCS very wrong if you don't think WHMCS offers anything that couldn't be done with a spreadsheet and a calendar.

6 hours ago, Cowboy said:

I am not happy that I can't export from phpmyadmin any data pertaining to my clients' domain names, the renewal dates or even what packages they have. 

Very fishy.

It's not fishy because it's not true. The data doesn't magically just appear in WHMCS - it's pulled from the database. You can export the data easily from phpMyAdmin.
WHMCS even has a lot of different exports that you can create directly from the system.
If you don't like the exports, you can even create your own using the API, models or database queries.

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6 hours ago, Cowboy said:

Not for very much longer. There's nothing that WHMCS offers me that I can't manage myself manually using spreadsheets and a calendar. Yes, it's admin, but I don't have that many clients, so to continue to pay the ridiculous monthly cost for this system is a bit daft. 

I am going to build my own manual system of billing but it seems that a lot of my data is being stored in places other than the mySQL database that WHMCS is supposed to run off.  I am not happy that I can't export from phpmyadmin any data pertaining to my clients' domain names, the renewal dates or even what packages they have. 

Very fishy.

 

What are you looking to export? I'll create the query for you...

By the way, you can export most, if not all data through Reports > Exports. 

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My mistake. There is more than one page of tables in phpmyadmin.  Doh. 

6 hours ago, DennisHermannsen said:

I think you're using WHMCS very wrong if you don't think WHMCS offers anything that couldn't be done with a spreadsheet and a calendar.

When I started using this software in 2009 I had over 150 clients and it was costing me $10 a month via my hosting company's subsidised rate. The exchange rate to my local currency was 8:1 or thereabouts. 

I now have only about 40 clients, my WHMCS license costs me $18.95 and the exchange rate is close to 20:1. It doesn't make any sense for me to be using such a sophisticated and expensive tool when I can easily store what I need in a free CRM like JetPack and a calendar to remind me when to issue an invoice. Or I could use a spreadsheet to store the data. 

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Well, WHMCS doesn't decide exchange rates, and being able to manage 250 active clients for $18.95 per month isn't (in general) a whole lot. If you have 40 client's, that's about $0.47 per client and only 0.08 if you have 250 clients. It's not WHMCS' fault that you don't have more active clients.
I don't completely agree with WHMCS' way of pricing their licenses but if I started a business, $19 a month to manage my clients wouldn't be a lot. I understand that the amount can seem like a lot depending on where you're from but it would be difficult for WHMCS to consider this. If the price of a WHMCS license only cost  $10 for customers in Brazil, a lot of people would fake their information in order to get a cheaper license.

There's multiple open source alternatives to WHMCS that can be used - I would use one of those instead of spreadsheets.

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1 minute ago, DennisHermannsen said:

There's multiple open source alternatives to WHMCS that can be used - I would use one of those instead of spreadsheets.

I looked and couldn't find anything. Can you point one out? 

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15 hours ago, Cowboy said:

Not for very much longer. There's nothing that WHMCS offers me that I can't manage myself manually using spreadsheets and a calendar. Yes, it's admin, but I don't have that many clients, so to continue to pay the ridiculous monthly cost for this system is a bit daft. 

I am going to build my own manual system of billing but it seems that a lot of my data is being stored in places other than the mySQL database that WHMCS is supposed to run off.  I am not happy that I can't export from phpmyadmin any data pertaining to my clients' domain names, the renewal dates or even what packages they have. 

Very fishy.

 

WHMCS uses the database to store basically everything. The only exception is modules that use API calls which means that data is actually stored by the provider that is giving you that service. I'm pretty sure you can export everything that is inside your WHMCS database.

Edited by yggdrasil

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8 hours ago, DennisHermannsen said:

I think you're using WHMCS very wrong if you don't think WHMCS offers anything that couldn't be done with a spreadsheet and a calendar.

It's not fishy because it's not true. The data doesn't magically just appear in WHMCS - it's pulled from the database. You can export the data easily from phpMyAdmin.
WHMCS even has a lot of different exports that you can create directly from the system.
If you don't like the exports, you can even create your own using the API, models or database queries.

I guess his point is that if you are small enough the cost is not justified because WHMCS still has an additional cost to maintain besides the subscription license. I can completely understand that not everyone needs instant automation and are just fine doing stuff manually until they can automate those tasks.

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2 hours ago, Cowboy said:

My mistake. There is more than one page of tables in phpmyadmin.  Doh. 

When I started using this software in 2009 I had over 150 clients and it was costing me $10 a month via my hosting company's subsidised rate. The exchange rate to my local currency was 8:1 or thereabouts. 

I now have only about 40 clients, my WHMCS license costs me $18.95 and the exchange rate is close to 20:1. It doesn't make any sense for me to be using such a sophisticated and expensive tool when I can easily store what I need in a free CRM like JetPack and a calendar to remind me when to issue an invoice. Or I could use a spreadsheet to store the data. 

I suspect that is true for most hosting companies as people started to move to big cloud providers like Amazon, Google and Microsoft. This is actually not WHMCS's fault, but the entire hosting market has shrunken as cloud providers are growing. I suspect this is why cPanel, WHMCS keep raising pricing to make up for the lost customers as companies are closing down or getting smaller.

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On 10/17/2022 at 6:02 AM, PixelPaul said:

Hello all,

I am curious, why are people still using WHMCS after what they did with the pricing and customers so called "lifetime" licenses?

What makes you think most still are? Just see how this community has almost died. I suspect most active WHMCS users are not using the software anymore and some are still trying to migrate away. The activity here in the community if you check active users shows clearly, they had a massive drop in users if that is any indicator. In other communities there is also little talk about WHMCS in general but to be fair, the small hosting company market is shrinking fast with big cloud providers taking most customers and the time of individuals hosting their personal website/blog is also over that most of them just moved to Instagram, Facebook, etc. In the past they promoted events and things on their own websites, now all of them use social networks for free because that is where the users are. And adsense from Google is also mostly gone which was how most individual financed their websites.

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5 minutes ago, DennisHermannsen said:

The most popular one is BoxBilling: https://www.boxbilling.org

 

No longer supported. 

6 minutes ago, DennisHermannsen said:

FOSSBilling is another one that seems interesting: https://fossbilling.org/

I looked at this but installation looks a bit too advanced. 

3 minutes ago, yggdrasil said:

I suspect this is why cPanel, WHMCS keep raising pricing to make up for the lost customers as companies are closing down or getting smaller.

Indeed. Sooner or later the straw breaks the camel's back and that has happened for me. I cannot justify the cost of what WHMCS does. I'd be fine paying like $5 a month for it, but anything more than issuing invoices and recording transactions is not required and I don't want to pay for "features" that are of no use to me at all. 

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1 minute ago, Cowboy said:

No longer supported. 

I looked at this but installation looks a bit too advanced. 

Indeed. Sooner or later the straw breaks the camel's back and that has happened for me. I cannot justify the cost of what WHMCS does. I'd be fine paying like $5 a month for it, but anything more than issuing invoices and recording transactions is not required and I don't want to pay for "features" that are of no use to me at all. 

If all you need is invoicing and billing, there are many services that can do that or free softwares. Just search for 'open source billing'.

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5 minutes ago, yggdrasil said:

If all you need is invoicing and billing, there are many services that can do that or free softwares. Just search for 'open source billing'.

I am going to use JetPack. 

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7 hours ago, Cowboy said:

I looked at this but installation looks a bit too advanced.

FOSSBilling install is uploading the PHP files to a web server and setting up a database and going to the script's install URL.  How is that advanced?  How did you install WHMCS?  Granted if you use the development builds, it does get more involved with composer.  However, dev version for something used for production should not be used.  And even they say don't use any version at this point for production.  

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16 hours ago, steven99 said:

FOSSBilling install is uploading the PHP files to a web server and setting up a database and going to the script's install URL.  How is that advanced?  How did you install WHMCS?  Granted if you use the development builds, it does get more involved with composer.  However, dev version for something used for production should not be used.  And even they say don't use any version at this point for production.  

I must have done it in a similar fashion - it was 2009 when it happened. I am not a developer so have no idea what "composer" is. 

I didn't see anything on FOSSBilling's website relating to install instructions. I will have another look, thanks. 

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1 hour ago, Cowboy said:

I must have done it in a similar fashion - it was 2009 when it happened. I am not a developer so have no idea what "composer" is. 

I didn't see anything on FOSSBilling's website relating to install instructions. I will have another look, thanks. 

Documentation is here: https://fossbilling.org/docs/category/getting-started

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To make sure you're comparing appless with apples, you might want to do a dry run to see how long it actually takes for you to replace WHMCS with a manual process, or takes to move to a new open source system.  Don't forget to include things like domain renewals, auto-suspension if they don't pay, and some sort of reasonable and robust support system.  My guess is you'll find it takes way more time than you'd think, but YMMV.

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2 hours ago, brianoz said:

To make sure you're comparing appless with apples, you might want to do a dry run to see how long it actually takes for you to replace WHMCS with a manual process, or takes to move to a new open source system.  Don't forget to include things like domain renewals, auto-suspension if they don't pay, and some sort of reasonable and robust support system.  My guess is you'll find it takes way more time than you'd think, but YMMV.

I only offer annual payment options for my client's website hosting, so it really isn't a lot of admin, plus I have never allowed auto-registrations for domain names. JetPack will be good enough to produce an invoice for me and it also links in with WooComerce for free, so while new orders may not have any automation for account setup in WHM or my other server, I don't have that many clients to warrant the need for it. 

If there was a WHMCS Lite that only offered billing and no automation I would be fine with paying something like $5 a month for it. 

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Another one you might look at if all you need is a simple and cheap one is https://www.domaincart.net/
Have not used it, and no idea if it's any good; simply saw him advertising on a community I'm on. 
Claims to be an ordering system (no provisioning) with recurring billing of some kind.

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